thread: Trading without stop-losses

if I may ask....how much do you usually trail stops your profit position....

After getting my intial stoploss to breakeven, I use a modified ATR to trail my trade out. I take out half in my profit goal and trail the next half. I adjust the ATR according to the market structure for example, loose ATR when the market runs are very powerful, tighter when the market gives smaller runs and tightens up.

Hi,
I have a stop loss its about 60-100 pips large.
I put in a position and add one more if we've got a sense that its gonna turn, if the market is moving quickly I dont add and occasionally I shut before the 60-100 pips... if the position moves 15 pips or more against me try to shut it near breakeven or with a little loss, if it moves in my favor, sometimes I place a stop to breakeven or above the latest large... so the number of the stops that really get struck are very quite small from the previous 3 months I had a stop falling, the largest floating was roughly 40 pips...
ive been trading similar to this for a lengthy period, and dont leverage I just use the same lotsize that matches with the equity in my account.
So its quite comfortable, trading isn't like a action film, 99 percent of this time is simply waiting for a fantastic setup...
I am not here to make countless an 5k account, you need to construct a solide performance during a long period and then start a tiny fund/managed account, thats how I did, dont lose your time trying tens of thousands of strategies, stay with you and concentrate on making it better, try to be consistent, and create a fantastic performance,serious folks would kill for a performance of 20% in 1 year... so everyone would die to invest in your restricted account.

Ask yourself the biggest and most respected hedge fonds dont earn more than 20-30percent in their best years? Right - if trader be realistic and treat trading like a real work, rather than like a fantasy.

Hi everyone,

Currently I exchange without having stop loss. I set take profit 30 pips. My strategy would be defence. When you've got good defence, it is precisely like soccer, nobody can score goal. Your MM is crucial. Never exchange more than 1 percent OF your equity.

Let it float, rules of nature what ever go up, have to come down and vice versa. Take at look at month TF and quantify what's the maximum fall in price? From that point you will know how much cushioning you had to sustain that loss. When the price goes up it will hit 30 pips take profit.

Now I exchange with serenity with no worry. The key is PATIENCE and GOOD MM!

I think it is annoying when traders believe their way is the only way to trade. I may be a newb but you need eyeballs to realize there are unlimited ways to trade. THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY AS LONG AS IT MAKES YOU MONEY. I look at it more as an art than a science... After trying several systems I eventually found one that works for me. I call it 'Dynamic Range Trading'. Ive shifted it not to utilize HARD STOPS but instead my SL and TP are always exactly the same... in the other end of this range. That may be in profit or loss it doesnt matter, after it reaches the end Im outside. And of course the range varies based on market conditions. It works for me and thats all that matters. So for you SWEET, if stop losses work, however there are ways!

I find it annoying when traders believe their way is the only way to trade. I could be a newb but you need eyeballs to realize there are ways. There's NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY AS LONG AS IT MAKES YOU MONEY. I look at it more as an art than a science... After attempting many systems I eventually found one that works for me. I call it 'Dynamic Range Trading'. Ive altered it not to utilize HARD STOPS but instead my SL and TP are always exactly the same... in the other end of this range. This might be in profit or loss it doesnt matter, once it reaches...

If you get out when market reaches the opposite end, then it's still a halt loss, no matter how you put it. You might have variable stops according to market conditions, but from what you explained, it pretty much seems like you're employing stop losses also.

A difficult stop doesn't indicate it is not flexible, it just means you have predifined conditions for your stops. Once price reaches a particular level you're out. That is a hard stop.

And yes, there are infinite ways to trade, but only a few that actually make you cash LONG-TERM.

Stoplosses per se aren't compulsory, but if you do not have a predetermined way of preventing losses, then you have to consider the fact your loss on any one transaction is potentially unlimited, meaning that you're always just one'black swan' occasion from ruin. It becomes an issue of what the farthest space that markets could trend is, and also how much drawdown you are able, or willing, to survive.

Hello everybody,

Currently I exchange without using stop loss. I put take profit 30 pips. My strategy would be defence. It's just like soccer, if you have good defence, nobody can score goal. Your MM is essential. Never exchange more than one percent OF your own equity.

Let it float, rules of character what go up, have to come down and vice versa. Check out at measure and month TF what's the fall in price? From there you will know support that is how much you needed to sustain that reduction temporily. When the price goes up it will hit 30 pips require profit.

Now...

Supposing you had bought EURUSD at 1.5130 on Dec 3, 2009. 2010 price had dropped more than 3,000 pips, without ever reaching your TP of 30 pips. If 1% of your account equates to 30 pips, you would have lost your whole account.

Conversely, if (like you say) your 1% is based on the worst yearly movement (say 1,400 pips for the Euro), then the 30 pip TP is just likely to result in a 0.021% profit in your account. In the above example, price still hasn't reached your target. A return of 0.02percent in more than 12 months is hardly worthwhile. And the commerce continues to demonstrate a loss after all this time.

I understand this is a worst case example, but in a more typical scenario your strategy leaves you open to large reductions (relative to the possible return) that may last for many days, or even months.

Playing without stop loss is unacceptable for me. If you will have any issue with electricity (power off), internet connection or broker link it may be easly wiped out of the market. Cuting transaprency and your loses of trading with Stop Loss and Take Profit is crucial for me and I can not imagine any other manner.
I saw several situations in my friends accounts, that they have blown their accounts due to playing without Stop Loss.
I don't recommend that

To become successful you need a minumum of one edge.

1st: Reduce this stupid risk/reward stuff. It's pretty useless.
2nd: Utilize low leverage (and no, 10:1 is not low. Use 1:1 or even under )
3rd: Do not use tight stops (the tighter the stops that you need more exact entrances that's very hard to reach because of the high noise in the lower timeframes)
4th: Entries are somewhat insignificant, the exit is where the money is created. Funny enough, most systems here caution about the entry.
5th: Scale in and out. Using one entry with one stop and a single target? ...

Replying belatedly....

Is Dependent upon your approach. For grid and trend traders, consented, entries are somewhat less important. Along with your remark about needing an edge, is (IMO) universally applicable.

But in my case, while I trace your points (2) and (5), the manner I trade, (low risk) entries are essential, which means tight stops and high R:R trades.

I borrowed the chart below from TheSnowman (hope he does not mind ). The lines I added reveal resistance getting support through an uptrend may be utilised to SOMETIMES pinpoint amazingly accurate entrances. Notice how after each support level is used, it gets taken out on another downmove, after which one of the next lower amounts holds great. With a 5 pip SL at each of these amounts, losses are trivial, and there a fantastic enough bounce to acquire the SL into breakeven for a trade. Then, if one is willing to continue long enough to provide some opportunity to bloom to the transactions, and is investing at the direction of a solid longer TF fad, a number of them turn into 50-500 pips obtained for a 5-10 pip first risk.

The chart I posted is close to an ideal specimen, and in any case, it is not quite as simple as I'm making it seem, LOL. The strategy works best trading certain pairs at certain times of the day, also when there are motives for price to bounce at a given level. But with a few 20:1 and 30:1 wins, come out well ahead, and still I can afford to get stopped out many times.

The stoploss does not have to be the enemy; used this manner, it will become an aggressive weapon which sometimes delivers high R:R trades. That's a fantastic counter-argument into the thread topic, IMO.

But as I said, it all depends on your strategy.... each to their own.

If you're away from the trade afterward, if you're monitoring the trade for a stop loss a S/L is essential.

A 2% reduction (on balance) is generally the pattern,but it is down to each individual's approach to risk.

I don't go above 2%,therefore ideally,according to'MY' strategy put your S/L to 2% of your balance.

IF scalping then 2% is way to high.

I must stress that these are my'OPINIONS' only.

Ken