thread: Psychology is nothing

This is one tough audience, hey?

It took a while, but I have learned to love impolite comments, personal attacks and other forms of insult. They're much like the way the market jumps 100 pips for no apparent reason... an insult to my degree of understanding of the market. Now, I know those things aren't directed at my 5.00 stop loss. It is only the markets' PMS manner of trying to excite and stimulate me. Now I simply tell the market, I understand how you're feeling. . .everyone seeking to ride your back to the promise land and all.

It is a bitch when your epiphany turns in an epoofany. Hang in there.

BTW Sorry for jerking you around with the Paris analogy, however I'm crazzy about the bitch. What can I say?

That is one tough audience, hey?

It took a while, but I have learned to love impolite remarks, personal attacks and other types of insult. They're much like the way the market jumps 100 pips for no apparent reason... an insult to some degree of understanding of the market. I know those things aren't directed in my 5.00 stop reduction. It's just the markets' PMS manner of attempting to excite and stimulate me. Now I just tell the market, I know how you feel. . .everyone seeking to ride your back into all and the promise land.

It's a bitch as soon as your epiphany turns into an epoofany. Hang in there.

BTW Sorry for jerking you around with the Paris analogy, but I'm crazzy concerning the bitch. What can I say?

Man, I do envy your energy and positive outlook. You always sound like you are bouncing off the walls (in a good way).

That surely doesn't hurt the learning procedure any.

But, back to my point, that won't cause you to a trader. Just learning how to trade will.

Moot point. She do not need to exchange, she is good at enough different things... that we won't get into...

Ya, all I tried to point out is that she's the means to trade when she desired and with some fantastic training she could be a trader.

Actually, I agreed with all the part about knowledge is everything. We achieve the knowledge is the crucial IMHO. A plogy in that regard isn't so bad. By that I mean that understanding how we as individuals learn best is usefull. By way of instance I'm a learner. I have difficulty learning from words. I need the charts and the step by step chronological explainations to learn the fastest.

Take care

Plogy is not important in trading, it is vitally important.
Plogy is really important in every company, in every endeavor, in all aspects of our life, because we're people and plogy is the study of such phenomena as perception, cognition, emotion, personality, behavior, and interpersonal relationships of people!
So there's absolutely no point in talking if plogy is important in trading, it's a fact.

Biology is also vitally important in trading, because economics is the scientific study of lifestyle, and now we, the traders, are living beings and therefore are also the programmers that produce automated trading systems.

Information Technology is very important in trading now each day, because we exchange using Web and PCs.

...

Regardless of blueruby's two first sentences at the beginning of this thread I think blueruby central point concerning trading and plogy is NOT about how much important plogy is, however, about how much HARD it is to master it. I believe that what he would say is that mastering plogy in gambling is WAY LESS HARD than mastering all the rest of the howtos of this job, like locating good setups, entries, exits, and stop loss, take profits, etc, that means finding a fantastic egy and formalizing it into a plan that as positive expectancy.

If this is exactly what blueruby really intends then I totally agree with him.

Discovering the right attitude and the right behaviour and being adequately disciplined in trading is not even by a span harder than it is doing the exact same for a lot of other individual tasks. If a person is not able to be disciplined in trading certainly he would also never, never be able to do a lot of other tasks, such as, for instance, a pilot, a physician, a fireman, a policeman, a soldier and every other job that implies risks.

The real specificity about trading is NOT mastering a super-human mysterious hyperspecial plogical attitude.

The real specificity concerning trading, what really makes trading a very hard job, is mastering a plan that has positive expectation, and being forced to do this typically with no given help or any particular training. You do not do the fireman with no instruction, nevertheless usually you do the trader forming in your own. THIS IS THE REAL HARD SPECIFICITY ABOUT TRADING compared to other tasks. You are and you have to find things by yourself. This is the part that is HARD. All the remainder is equivalent to a lot of tasks.

If you study to be a pilot there are a lot of items you have to study, really tons and tons of stuff. There's also a matter that is called human factor (that may be compared to plogy in trading). You know what? Human factors cause 98 percent of all air accidents. And you know what? The quantity on factor you study to be a pilot is the tiniest of the volumes of things that you study too. For God's sake, an individual could ask, and why is this if we know that factors that are human cause 98 percent of all air accidents?

Well, the answer is very, very easy. WE ARE WHAT WE ARE, we can't alter our nature, we can't overcome. We can devise preventive PLANS to workaround our limitations. And it is on those who we focus our study, not on factor per se. So for a crisis on a flight no one pilot coach will teach you how to control your emotions, how to stay calm, how important it is to not sense fear, and stuff like that (you see that only in movies). You are taught by them WHAT YOU MUST DO, what buttons you have to push, what levers you have to pull, what messages you have to send over the radio. THEY TEACH YOU THE HOWTOS not the attitude. The attitude is going to be a consequence of the training on which to really, physically do. So what saves you are the check-lists, the security checks before taking-off. No more plogy. You will not be plogy definitively saved by Researching. You study that only to really comprehend why predefinite procedures and check-lists exist. However, what saves you is that the preventive PLANNING, the KNOWLEDGE that is obtained, the made TRAINING.

When a trader panics during a trade, it's not because of plogy, it's because of BAD PLANNING. You aren't going to get a cent from the markets should you thing that before going trading it's better you improve yourself plogy. You have to improve your PLAN, also you have to improve it in a way that whatever occasion that is next will take place during a transaction you know what buttons you'll have to push.

So is plogy really important in trading? Absolutely, it IS vital. Just it's not the tough part of trading. The hard part is formalizing a preventive PLAN. A plan that has positive expectation but is also able to allow you not panic all of the markets will do and that says to you what to do in EVERY circumstance.

To be able to do such a plan you require KNOWLEDGE, plogy can give you nothing on this.

I start to know somewhat, in comparison to your car, we're referring to however good the machine, even if it doesn't have a good scooter, it won't operate, if it doesn't have a decent driver, it can't reach its optimal performance, if it doesn't have gas, it may never start.

But everything counts

You still do not appear to understand it though.

Emotional management is an essential component of any experienced trader's egy.
What we are saying here is that we are forced to do that due to the simple fact that all systems have imperfections.If there were to exist the notorious holy grail of trading then emotions would have nothing to do with trading.

I really don't get it. I agree with all the traders. Which do you??

You still do not seem to understand it though.

Emotional management is an essential part of any experienced trader's egy.
What we're saying here is that we're made to do this because of the simple fact that all systems have imperfections.If there were to exist that the notorious holy grail of trading afterward feelings would have nothing to do with trading.

Two things.

System Success is not the key with plogical problems in trading: Should you take the same system and exchange it on paper, with 1 contract, with 10 contracts and with 100 contracts you will get unique results at feeling, thinking and acting levels - that is plogy.

The contemporary view is not that you control your emotions (the brains of great traders still have measurable emotional reactions when the markets tick them against or near their loss exits) its that you control your own reactions to your emotions. Your brain structures will react no matter how good you are so the important thing is to decrease the strain of response and more importantly what you do to it in reaction.


But repeated experience of system success, especially with good training will decrease emotional reactivity and error even if nothing else has been done. Its only that awareness and psychological manipulations (plogy) will make it easier - and their absence may prevent it coming together in the first location.



Note: Paris might have to get to 1000 contracts before the annoyance stepped up

You still don't seem to understand it though.

Emotional control is an essential part of any experienced trader's egy.
What we're saying here is that we're forced to do this due to the simple fact that all systems have imperfections.If there were to exist that the notorious holy grail of trading then emotions would have nothing to do with trading.

Why do you need to be the holy grail? If a trader understands a technique which has a positive anticipation , then why the drama?

Just do your freaking job.

I guess it is like anything else in existence. Some people today need the drama.

Otherwise, why would we be on these forums?

Two things.

System Success isn't the key using plogical problems in trading: Should you choose the same system and exchange it on paper, with 1 contract, together with 10 contracts and also 100 contracts you'll get different results whatsoever, believing and acting levels -

Why?

Should you use proper position sizing, why does it matter how large the trade ends up being?

You risk 2 percent of your account. If that is 2 dollars, or 2 million, it's still 2 percent.

In case you have 2 million on the trade, it means you have 100 million in the account. 2 isn't that big of a deal.

You run the numbers, you exchange the machine, you place the trade.

I think you people who are all into the emotions and feelings and drama and crap will never make it large. You restrict yourselves, you don't give credit to yourselves. Then they could if you state you can be ruled by emotions. Should you give them no consideration or power, then they can't rule you...

Why?

Should you use appropriate position sizing, why does it matter how large the transaction ends up being?

You risk 2 percent of your account. If that's 2 dollars, or 2 million, it's still 2 percent.

In case you have 2 million on the transaction, it means you have 100 million in the account. 2 isn't that big of a deal.

You run the numbers, you exchange the machine, you place the trade.

I believe you folks who are into the feelings and emotions and drama and crap will never make it large. You restrict yourselves, you do not give credit that is enough to yourselves. Should you say you can be ruled by emotions , then they could. Should you provide them no consideration or electricity, then they cannot rule you....

While experienced traders can joust. . .pick and poke each other is that newbie traders are going to want to believe you and what you're saying. This imo is very dangerous.

Your response regarding risk management shows very clearly you don't understand the direction pressures of larger amounts of actual $, and the psycoloigical issues that are involved when you exchange accounts that are 6 or even 7 amounts. THe two% of the amount or that amount sounds right. But there's a gap when it is your own dough.

Think about the demonstration trader....successful. Good system. Then begins trading real money and has issues....Hmmmmmm....Why? Why isn't he a fantastic trader? He needs to per his or her system Since the way isn't being executed by him. Why can't he execute? Because despite his registered sucess, some thing is standng in the way of trading that is confident. It is truly a mental issue that stands in the way. Plus it isn't a aha moment. It is a series and string of these moments.

Mark Douglas's book (Trading in the zone) sez it all when it comes to this issue.

Great Trading

Jimno