Speed of fulfilment on demo accounts from NDD brokers
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thread: Speed of fulfilment on demo accounts from NDD brokers

  1. #1

    Speed of fulfilment on demo accounts from NDD brokers

    I'm planning to open a demo account with a non-dealing desk (NDD) broker. So far I've only ever exchanged (live and demo) with a market-making broker, and I am aware that this might not be ideal for my purposes.

    My question is as follows: would an NDD broker's demo account give me a sensible experience of fulfilment rate? My market-making broker completes transactions immediately because it doesn't need to go anyplace else to get fulfilment. Is not a demo account of an NDD broker perform the identical style, giving me a faster experience of fulfilment compared to their NDD live account could deliver?

    Thanks for any insight.

  2. #2
    Thx J

    What do you mean when you state that most NDD brokers are market makers? Are you speaking to the distinction between genuine straight through processing (STP) and NDD brokers who also (in their backend) let client orders to socialize with different clients' orders. My slim understanding of those distinctions is based largely on http://www.askpips.com/brokers/quest...ker-ecn-broker I just read.

    Cheers
    PK

    BTW: I do take your separate point about a market-maker's fulfilment also not being instant, and that's the reason why I place the word in inverted commas in the first position, but that I wait only fractions of a second to really have an order fulfilled by my present broker and I have no clue how long that would become if I opened a live account with one of the NDD brokers.

  3. #3
    Junior Member oxno25's Avatar
    18
    This must be a exotic broker which you're considering; since if it had been a reasonably common broker, I am sure you could find enough people's adventures posted on the internet already, if you'd search.
    Of course you might have started a thread where you specifically asked for people's experience with a particular broker. .

  4. #4
    Thx J

    What do you mean when you state most NDD brokers are market makers? Are you speaking to this distinction between genuine straight through processing (STP) and NDD brokers who also (on their backend) allow customer orders to interact with different customers' orders. My thin understanding of these distinctions is based largely on http://www.askpips.com/brokers/quest...ker-ecn-broker I simply read.

    Cheers
    PK

    BTW: I do take your separate point about a market-maker's...
    I reality we have numerous definitions of the identical thing that sometimes is difficult to understand anything.
    Dealer desk ( in my own time ) was a Broker who had a person that had to accept certain purchases or sales
    from time to time. Despite that position still exist in major Banks, now-days has been achieved by software. So, from this standpoint
    technically speaking all broker can say they're non- coping desk (ndd) since they really dont have one. But the software
    may do a lot better coping ( in their own favor of course) then a person can do.

    In the flip side STP (Straight Trough processing) also can be misleading. Normally the key is to where they process it straight
    trough. As an instance, think about the worse Broker you understand. Now think that someone get a white label from this Broker and
    STP everything to the Bad Broker. Technically and legally they're a STP Broker. right?


    Unlucky there is not any way to find out. If your current Broker has great execution in real account why change?
    I really to really find out you would have to retain your current Broker, receive a second one and trade both in a perfect synchronization
    of time, lot etc.. As soon as you do a few hundred times and keep documents, then and only then you'll know. All of the rest of us
    just have opinions of who is quicker, better, less spreads etc.. We can chair and observe spread comparison engines such as myfxbook or alternative
    but these are only quotes and the only means to find out is what I mentioned previously. Because isn't what they quote that things, it's at the price they execute when we place an order.

    J

  5. #5
    This has to be an exotic broker which you are interested in; because if it had been a reasonably common broker, I am sure you could find sufficient people's experiences posted on the net already, if you'd search.
    Of course you could have started a thread where you specifically asked for people's experience with a specific broker. .
    M.m.m. I believe you misunderstood my reference to some non-dealing desk (NDD) broker. I didn't have a certain broker in mind. I was asking a question about demo accounts with NDD brokers in general. But your more general point is well taken: I can (and will) do more searching for myself. :--RRB-
    PK

  6. #6
    Thx J. That's extremely very helpful.

    ... If your current Broker has good execution in real account why change? ...
    This question really goes to the heart of why I am looking for alternatives, the backdrop to my original query.
    And I guess the answer has two parts:My broker has good execution at the moment, but that may change and I don't have any immediate experience of other brokers. So I wish to know what the options are. Maybe more importantly, I would like to understand if the potential client-broker conflict of interest is greater with a single broker than another. I am making money here in the moment and it is coming from someplace. By my understanding, a market-maker must pay his exposure to my position, either by netting off my position against the contrary positions of other customers or by going out into the market himself. My hypothesis was that a non-market-maker wasn't himself exposed to my place and that therefore a conflict of interest was not as likely to arise. If all brokers are market-makers (more or less) then it makes no real difference. PK

  7. #7
    Junior Member oxno25's Avatar
    18
    I was asking a question about demo accounts with NDD brokers in general.
    I believe we cannot deduce a broker's live execution times from demonion. In general, and if a broker allows for (btw, I don't believe MMs will), we can speed up the execution times of MT4 terminals by opening or maintaining a MT4 session beforehand. For more info see this thread: https://www.cliqforex.com/trading-sy...fibonacci.html

  8. #8
    .

    [list=1][*]Perhaps more importantly, I wish to understand if the potential client-broker conflict of interest is significantly greater with one broker than another. I am making money here at the the moment and it is coming from someplace. By my understanding, a market-maker has to cover his exposure to my own position, possibly by netting off my position against the opposite positions of other customers or by heading into the market himself. My theory was that a non-market-maker was not himself vulnerable to my position and that therefore a conflict of interest...
    Yes, that the conflict of interest plays rol and it is different from Broker to Broker. I overall, trading using a MM should cost about 1 pips average
    per commerce.

    The dilemma is that is quite difficult, almost impossible find out. Trading using an MM in certain transactions you come out better then
    trading using an ECN and viceversa. But as I said, generally cost about a pips extra typical. That is about all they can wonder off from the overall consensus of prices in the ECN. If they move too far, they'd get murdered by mediation from folks like me.

    The degree of potential client-Broker conflict of interest arise in the % of orders des-balance they maintain. The longer they maintain,
    the greater conflict and worse for us traders. Say they goes like this for instance and hold 5 percent.

    In one specific millesecond they get complete orders of 1M units Buy euro and 1/2M units sell euro. Since they system will maintain 5 percent of their des-balance, they'll buy 475 000 in the market and trade against another 25 000. So, they filled all of the orders and as a Broker are brief by 25 000 units. . . .If in the next ticks are up... they system will immediately dump those units. But clearly not at a loss, because they'd ch some stops nearby or slide a couple of order to pay for it. If the tick are down, then they get and hold out at a profit.

    In this scenario situation of that little 5 percent they hold, we wouldn't even notice. But imagine they do it using 20 or 30% time. Then whenever
    the market goes against them, they need to ch a lot more pips out of us. Problem is that only God and their best exec knows how much they're playing . And it's perfectly legal provided that they have sufficient cash of their own to pay for it.

    J.

  9. #9
    Thanks again J. Super-interesting.

    That I was not familiar with the word des-balance, but I understand from the remainder of your case what you are referring to.
    I now have one further question based on such an illuion.

    So, now they filled all the orders and as a Broker are brief by 25 000 units. . . .If in the next ticks are up... they system will immediately ditch those components. But clearly not in a loss, because they'd ch some stops nearby or slip a few order to cover it.
    I understand what the broker could be doing in slipping a few orders to pay this loss, but the way in clinic would a broker ch some stops near? Would they temporarily expand their spreads to activate some discontinue losses, or might they manipulate the quote (both buy and sell) on this pair temporarily down or up. Or could it be any other mechanism which I have not thought of?

    PK

    (BTW: I've now opened a demo account with another broker. Learning all the time.)

  10. #10
    I'm planning to start a demo account using a non-dealing desk (NDD) broker) Thus far I have only ever traded (live and demonion ) using a market-making broker, and I am conscious that this might not be optimal for my own purposes.

    My query is as follows: will an NDD broker's demo account give me a more sensible experience of fulfilment rate? My market-making broker completes trades because it does not have to go anywhere else to get fulfilment. Won't a demo account of an NDD broker perform precisely the identical way, giving me a quicker experience of fulfilment...
    No.
    Absolutely no demo account from anyone would give you a sensible experience of a real account fills.

    In any case, most NDD brokers are market manufacturers.

    A market never complete/fills instantly. It may be true that they don't send orders out, but that is a better reason
    to allow them to delay and try to match. Should they cant match, they still cover their bum at least covering the net des-balance... all which takes
    time to process, therefore never instant.

    J.

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