1:1 Risk Reward Ratio - Why it just makes sense

[aipkrgeta]

18th June 2012 Update -

Question: What benefit was gained from this particular thread?
Answer: It was a fantastic way to collect together the posters and mutts I needed to add to my ignore list. Following a few miserable sods diluted any content with their diarrhea and trailed the discussion, a result above was obtained.

Notice to new readers of the thread: Conserve your time and only read the first page if it's in any way useful to you. It is going to only take a moment and you are welcome if you discover no use for this, to lose it as trash. Also remember that this forum is sponsored by, and profits from, brokers and other businesses who (most of that ) do not need you to succeed in trading. Lastly, if people rant and rave about the old, overhyped procedures, and the majority of people lose their cash. . .any lightbulbs light up out there?

The most frequent belief among forum Traders is that a 1:2 or greater RR is essential for profitable trading. Individuals who say that this are that there's a 50% likelihood of this market hitting their SL plus a 50% chance of it hitting their target. Well a simple understanding of simple and trading math would show that there is a chance of price hitting 20 pips compared to hitting -10. Many traders think if they can come up with a sytem which has a very slight edge that 1:2 or greater RR will be what makes them money.

The trouble is that they will need to have an extremely strong edge to acquire a 1:2 or greater RR platform to be right 50% of the time, purely because it's more likely that price will hit their stop more often than it hits their target.

So what is another strategy to this market for people who do not have a huge edge? A 1:1 Risk Reward Ratio.

When we leave off transaction costs for a moment we can say that a 100 pip cease has about as much chance of hitting as a 100 pip Goal. I myself cover about 1.2 pips total transaction cost per trade that's 1.2 % of this 100 pip target. Every triumph will net 98.8 pips and every loss will net -101.2 pips. So our system needs to have a little 2.4% edge to break even. Anything more than that and we're into profit.

Thus, finding a pattern to enter on that is right 6 days out of 10, provides a total profit of 188 pips. Being right just 51 times nets 80 pips.

So we're taking about a system/method that's only a slight edge and bingo, we're earning money. A pattern which works out slightly more often than it does not is all you need with a 1:1 RR. So why put all that pressure on to have a edge large enough to work a 1:2 RR?

[Strikersipk]

The reason why I don't hear your crap is that I am really making profits that people like you guys....

Wow, hostile are not we? I suggest you return to your trading system because having a conversation is certainly not your strong suit. Can you two girls kiss and make up, it is nearly the weekend! https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136032.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136032.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136032.png

[gagokva22]

If, as an example, your put your SL in 20 pips because, say, it is a recent maximum high, why use a multiple of the number to ascertain where you may set your TP even though those two components are entirely independent store in one's specific mind? I can see exactly what you mean. Some people seem to be good at establishing transactions and goals.

But if my Sl is 20 I know that all I need is a TP of 20. It's not necessary to consider monitoring even or stops and TPs BEs. I think it makes trading simpler from a perspective. And for me, that is certainly what I need. So my only worry will be winning more transactions than I lose.

[gagokva22]

Will you two women kiss and make up, it is almost the weekend! Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136032.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png I am sure you prefer to watch https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png

[Strikersipk]

But if my Sl is 20 I know that all I want is a TP of 20. It's not necessary to think about trailing even or stops and other TPs BEs. I think it makes trading simpler. And for mepersonally, that's certainly what I want. So my only worry would be winning transactions than I lose. Then you're not harnessing the real potential of the market or trading it, you're restricting your own development.

[Strikersipk]

I'm sure you like to watch https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png Yeah okay cancel my past, kick each other's butts, it is far more entertaining! Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png

ding ding....round two

[joxrdomi]

I can see what you mean. Some people today seem to be good at establishing transactions and goals.

But if my Sl is 20 I know that all I want is a TP of 20. No need to consider monitoring stops and other TPs or even BEs. I think it makes trading simpler from a plogical point of view. And for me, that what I want. So my only worry would be winning more transactions than I shed. I hear you, but just how do you feel if the price goes your way another 100 or 200 pips once you take your profit? Wouldn't it be better use of your effective entry to allow the market tell you exactly where and when to take your profit?

[gagokva22]

I hear you, but just how do you feel when the price moves your way another 100 or even 200 pips after you take your profit? Wouldn't it be a better use of your successful entry to let the market tell you where and when to take your profit? Great debate, but that would go for any TP you choose to take. Market could always move up 100 or even 200 more. For me personally, it's about accepting my own risk and accepting my own profit. There will be plenty of opportunities to return into that commerce When there's a trend that continues.

And that is actually the point. While I make 20 pips on that commerce, I am thinking excellent job, another person would believe damn, missed out on a lot of pips.

Men, I am not making any secret of my trading expertise. Not for one moment do I want to tell anybody what to do or how to do it. I do have expertise in probability games and variance and I know the best way (for me personally ) to tackle them from a plogical perspective. For your machine, I think that it is secondary by far.

[pkrpklas]

Interesting conversation, I think (but am not sure!) The answer is to include systems (and I mean totally tested systems not just grabbing a new one of the forums that appear to be working) First you need to have the metrics on your current system moving back 5-10 years (if you have not been trading it that long then manually backtest commerce by trade....secondly the new system should aim to match the old system ( when you put the equity curves together for old and new that the curve should smoother (not necessarily bigger!) . . .the system I have been trading for the past few years has a win rate of around 46% but typical win is 1.4 versus typical reduction -0.9....the new system I've developed, tested and now trading reside has a win rate of 59.5% profit is 0.94 average reduction is -1.05 (all these calculations include commission and slippage) Profit factor on the first is 1.32 and about the next 1.21....but what really counts are the equity curves. . .my first system typically goes through a drawdown of around 18-28% eery 18-20 months....the new system drawdown is a maximum of around 12% each 6-10 months....but, when u put the two together the maximum drawdown overall is 14-18% plus a far smoother ride! Also and like among the other people who posted said is that the plogy...I get rewarded with the ocassional big win on the original system and'm also plaed by the frequent wins of the new system....oh and that I can scale up my stakes entire as I know what to expect (incidentally I always presume double the worst drawdown is around the corner! ) )
J

[ffernandwzc]

Lame...

This is the reason why I really don't like sharing my stuff in here...

Firstly I'm not altering up because I'm having any excessive pull down... I'm changing up because after analyzing this is what I found to make more money.

Second I believe I have a better view of my self and what I'm doing than you men.

Thus saving yet another rant I will just agree to disagree. And leave it at that.

The reason why I do not hear your rubbish is that I'm really making profits that people like you men always tell everyone are hopeless. So good luck doing... not sure what your problem is. Then just do not post if you do not like critique, it's as simple as that. A forum is here for thoughts.

[ffernandwzc]

Interesting discussion, I think (but am not sure!) The answer is to include programs (and I mean thoroughly tested systems not just grabbing a new one of the forums that appear to be working) First you need to have the metrics on your current system moving back 5-10 years (if you haven't been trading it long then manually backtest trade by trade....secondly the new system must aim to complement the older system ( when you place the equity curves together for old and new the curve ought to smoother (not necessarily larger!) . . .the system I have been trading... could have been written by me. Good post!

[joxrdomi]

Good debate, but that goes for any TP you choose to take. Market could always move up 100 or even 200 more. It's about accepting my risk and accepting my profit. If there's a trend that continues, there will be plenty of chances to get back into that commerce.

And this is actually the point. While I create 20 pips on that commerce, I am thinking excellent job, another person would think damn, missed out on a lot of pips.

Guys, I am not making any secret of my trading expertise. Not for one second do I wish to tell anybody what to do or the way... Don't get me wrong, I did not mean to patronize you or anyone about their egy. I wish you the very best personally, if that works for you. One's entrance point is someone else's exit point, and so on...

[lcoco]

Do not exchange at any system that can not offer you leading outcomes....if u do not find such a method then do not trade in any way.

I know now I can not exchange a system with no expectancy of at least 0.7 and a triumph rate above 50 percent

there are fairly great systems if u keep researching with a open mind.

[layunny]

not sure what your issue is. Then simply don't post, if you don't like critique, it's as easy as that. A forum is here for exchanging ideas. No issue with you you said sounds like system hopping and I told you I believed it wasn't. And added that it was helpless that you jumped to that conclusion.

You expressed your ideas that I expressed mine. Should you need a hug in between then ask. Create a valid point or don't bother.

[pdrusko]

Good argument, but that would go for any TP you choose to take. Market could go up 100 or even 200 more. It's about accepting my own risk and accepting my own profit. There'll be a lot of chances to return into that trade if there's a trend that continues.

And that is actually the stage. When I make 20 pips on this trade, I am thinking good job, another person would think damn, missed out on a lot of pips.

Guys, I am not making any secret of my trading expertise. Not for one second do I want to tell anyone what to do or the way... It's refreshing that somebody puts the plogical game . In trading, it is difficult to pin down percentages in order variance and to apply odds matches. There is not any certain number of thus and cards hands -- It's wide open on the options of interpretation.

You could have a set method and thus rank various uses of itbut there, you would have to filter through different kinds and period frames of charts in an exhaustive study and then make precise rules to delimit how to use the method. Being only a probability user for yourself, most trading procedures on ff may not be satisfying enough.

I find that every trade has to be an ersatz method gathered from drawing on price action. I can find out that proportions make plogy doable. So, I can from now on fill up may screen enough and so that I can determine percentages for this 1 trade.

[ffernandwzc]

No problem with you you said sounds like system jumped and I told you I believed it was not. And added that it was helpless that you jumped to that conclusion.

You voiced your ideas I expressed mine. If you need a hug in between then ask. Make a valid point or don't bother. I need a hug https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png

[layunny]

I want a hug https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png

[djkalyspain]

If anyone ever wonders why all the awesome traders buy fking Irate and disappear. It is cause after you start making actual money the forum is like speaking to a bunch of monkeys. I shit you not. Provided that you have this belief, you get a competitive advantage in the market... I shit you not. https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136033.png

[gagokva22]

This men clearly a fuck tard.... No kissing here. Post one live trade. And maybe I can admit you have some skills. Hostile and slow are you? Are you searching for? Those where I assert to make hundreds of pips? Contrary to you will be open and well documented. I have my thoughts and I share them with the entire world, not scared of what people might think of my approach. With it seems I admire people's opinion something. It is your way, and when we do not agree or understand, we are fuck tards, or is it only me? You were speaking about you men, because before your nosing started. Because you said, In fact, you couldn't have been speaking about me: I've never profited listening to forum junkies?

You clearly have to prove your superiority. . .well Cindy you are wonderful. Your change of strategy was a stroke of genius along with your math with respect to the 1% and 3 percent risk is already legendary.

That kiss..well, I would not piss in your mouth with all the shit that's coming out of it. I am pleased to say that you're the first although I never had to ignore an individual.

Could it be a bad instance of your menstrual cycle?

[gagokva22]

Don't get me wrong, I did not mean to patronize you or anybody about their egy. If that works for you, I wish you the best. One's entrance point is someone else's exit point, and so on... I did not feel that whatsoever. I am here to learn and talk. If I would understand it all I would not have to ask or look for other people's thoughts. I am open for new viewpoints and might find something I can incorporate in my own trading.

I took a couple live trades and that I felt instantly that something did not sit by me. I ceased I am trying to tweak it and trading live.

So in other words I valued your remarks.

[joxrdomi]

So in other words I appreciated your remarks. Thanks.
I used to utilize your egy for some time and it works nicely indeed when one masters one's technique. My problem was the re-entry on precisely the trend also, more generally, the trading frequency of the egy. I now trade less often (say 2-3 times per day) and manage to maintain my winning positions for many days using a relatively coherent exit egy whereas I used to trade 10 times more without better results.

At the end of the day, the gap between our approaches will be less about R:R but about personal plogy and various comfort zones.

[joxrdomi]

and figure out how to maintain my winning positions for several days Clearly, now is not one of those days...

[gagokva22]

It is refreshing that someone puts the plogical game first. Just, in trading, it's hard to pin down percentages in order variance and to apply odds games. There is not any certain number of thus and cards hands.

You could have a set method and thus rank different applications of it, but there, you would need to filter through different kinds and period frames of charts in an exhaustive study and make precise principles to delimit how to use the procedure. Being only an extremely precise... Yes, you're correct and just with games such as for instance blackjack we understand what our edge is, or better yet, the house's edge. You can ascertain that on a hand basis and over a large sample size. With trading that edge can not be determined per individual trade but just with a big sample size. I don't observe any difference in the two examples that are last. Markets are always changing and gamers are always changing also. So I must find that small edge I believe I need to achieve success and do this with a trading strategy which requires away as many factors as I can.

I really hope I understood your point properly and mine comes across definitely also. Sometimes items get lost in translation.

How do I get a bigger version of the picture in your member profile? I am curious what it's about.

[gagokva22]

In the conclusion of the day, the gap between our approaches will be about Rbut about personal plogy and various comfort zones. If you had to give a percentage to the significance of your methode/system along with your personal plogy and various comfort zone.

Really just interested in your view.


Clearly, today is not one of these days... Bad day at work?

[pdrusko]

Yes, you're right and only with games such as for example roulette we understand what our edge is, or even better, the house's edge. In poker you can ascertain that on a hand and over a large sample size. Per individual trade that border can not be determined with trading but only with a big sample size. I really don't see any difference from the two examples that are past. Markets are constantly changing and players are constantly changing. So I must discover that little edge I think I have to achieve success and do this with a trading method that requires... Yeah, alright, your response helps me know how to add odds better; and, this is what I meant, restated:
Every drawing device, say, a symmetric triangle, has much likelihood (from a large, diverse sample dimensions, which one can begin at http://thepatternsite.com/st.html) of functioning, depending on its surroundings and insides. Take a bunch of patterns and figure their juxtaposition at a chart area to get a general picture of the prospect of any 1 trade.

My profile picture is of the cycle of market feelings, which I sometimes use in an abbreviated form I added a few things to. It is in http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1_____enUS436US438sugexp=chrome,mod=1 0sourceid=chromeie=UTF-8q=cycle of market emotions plus it along with other versions of emotion are discussed in this thread.

Best of luck out of your own studies.

[joxrdomi]

If you had to provide a percentage to the significance of your methode/system along with your personal plogy and respective relaxation zone.

Really just interested in your opinion.

Bad day at the office? Hard to distinguish between system and plogy. Once you've got a system you are 100% familiar with (i.e. where you are plogically prepared to take losses provided that you understand you have a positive expectancy), there should not be any space for plogy whatsoever.

Not a bad day, just a rough market which clearly lacks direction... I'll live

[gagokva22]

Ha-pattern:

Tnx, this is another reason I am happy that this thread came back to life.

I am definitely gonna read up on the coils. I am convinced it can't hurt to have some understanding of that concept. To appears to offer you a lot of info. The guy is funny.

This cycle of market feelings left me laugh. So recognizable:--RRB-

Darko, I got ya. Happy trading

[irene2395]

I used to exchange 1:2 or 1:3 with about a 38% win rate. It worked and made sense to be making about the winners for obvious reasons. I have found I've been able to earn more money in 1:1 with a 62% success rate. The cause of this is due to the fact that the drawdown is significantly less because the win rate is higher. Because of draw down I can risk more. I went from risking 0.25percent per trade to adapt 10 or more consecutive losers to risking a whole 1% each trade.

I've doubled my profit this manner

check the stats for yourself, The first picture is a duplicate of my stats trading in 1:2 and gives 4 weeks of information from last year. The next reveals the new risk/reward at 1:1. Its early days but now I would need to state
Roofx is 100% correct
https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/15301360181600315569.png
https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136021568255983.png

[layunny]

I have discovered I have been able to make considerably more money at 1:1 with a 62% win rate. The cause of this is due to the fact that the drawdown is less since the win rate is greater. Because of draw I will risk more. Precisely

[aoxrmolmc]

Fascinating discussion, I think (but am not sure!) The solution is to include systems (and I mean totally tested systems not only grabbing a new one of those forums that appear to be working) First you need to have the metrics on your current system going back 5-10 years (in case you haven't been trading it that long afterward manually backtest commerce by trade....secondly the new system should aim to match the old system ( if you place the equity curves together for old and new the curve ought to smoother (not always larger!) . . .the system I have been trading... 100% agree and that is precisely the type of thing I do too. I've got 2 systems too for this reason - smoothing the equity curve out. And in my opinion, its probably the easiest means of managing drawdown. You cant avoid it but you can offset some of it by having more than one system.

[Strikersipk]

And that is the stage. When I make 20 pips on that trade, I'm thinking excellent job, another individual would think damn, missed out on a lot of pips. And yet another individual might think they made a wise move by staying at the trade and exploiting the market for what it has to offer, why cut profits (short) without the market giving a legitimate reason?




Now for the system, I strongly believe that it's secondary with far. So do I, and that's why I believe the collapse stats are so large, the vast majority think that finding a tool to forecast management accurately is key to profitability.

I really fail to see the value of statistically analysing a systems historic performance when no 2 transactions are the same. If someone needs those amounts as a crutch to give them confidence to exchange then they probably need to critique the way.

[gagokva22]

Impressive Doug.

[lorenaabad20]

I really don't see the value of statistically analysing a methods historic performance when no two transactions are ever the same. As difficult as it may be, I'll agree with here.

Further, a few of those (additional ) answers are just too scientifically advanced. Trading doesn't need to be rocket science.

Everything should be as simple as possible but no simpler is a quote by the first rocket scientist. For me, this means perfecting it as time goes by and just developing your of trading. If your method is too rigid then you may fail to escape a trade when it turns against you personally.

Anyway, it is Friday and I will not elaborate further

'cuz I don't wish to.

Happy Weekend.

[gagokva22]

'cuz I do not wish to.
Happy Weekend. Geez, I only wanted to ask why not https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136008.png

Love your weekend.

[anpknittimok.lopwz]

I used to exchange 1:2 or 1:3 with about a 38% win rate. It worked and made sense to be making more about the winners for apparent reasons. Nevertheless I have found I've been able to make cash with a 62% win rate. The reason for this is because the drawdown is less since the triumph rate is higher. Because of less draw down I will risk more. I moved from risking 0.25percent per transaction to accommodate 10 or more successive winners to risking a full 1% per transaction.
I've doubled my profit this way Hey MacDoug, these figures are looking great! Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136008.png
I should incorporate something like this into the exit egies that I am working on. I ceased using RR after I tried after the headline of 1:2 or 1:3 back at the afternoon and it generated losers it was not plogically workable, even when I was able to remain marginally in profit. In the long run I made a decision to handle the risk and allow the rewards take care of these and that worked ok but I want something a little more sophistied than that now. Like you said earlier, the newbie times are over - no more excuses! https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136009.png https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530136009.png

[Kttera]

Due to less draw down I could risk more. I went from risking 0.25% per trade to accommodate 10 or more successive winners to risking a full 1% per trade. That's very helpful. Just how far can you trace this line of logic? What happens in the event that you trade 1:0.5 and increase your win rate even further?

One thing is certain. Once I'm in profit and the position, I have that profit. I might well get less if I wait for longer. In fact, the longer I am hoping for, the less my chance of receiving it. At every point I ask myselfIs the chance of getting more from this trade higher than 50%? If I've no fantastic reason for thinking it is, I'm basically tossing a coin so I depart.

[irok62011]

Check on your own in the stats, the very first picture gives 4 weeks of data and is a copy of my stats trading at 1:2. The next reveals the new risk/reward at 1:1. Its early days but at this point I would need to state
Roofx is 100% right [/quote]

I certainly agree also. The compounding process is more successful this way since there are winners to build on. Each egy I use in the the stock market and forex relies in an even R:R. Smart stop positioning with a sensible take profit. First I always look at how far my entries are worth 70 percent of this time plus egize a stop loss below a support level or above a resistance level with an even risk reward. I constantly exchange with the management of this simple moving average. I try not to buck the trend since this is when my win ratio is effected.

[lorenaabad20]

Roofx is 100% correct [/quote]

100% right'ay? That's a bold statement.

And about that picture...??

[irok62011]

100% right'ay? That's a bold statement.

And about that image...?? [/quote]

Yeah that post did not make sense did it. I reproduced a quote and submitted it before I answered. Just agreeing that handling your transactions around an even Ris more easy not better or worse a R:R.

[lorenaabad20]

100% right'ay? That is a bold statement.

And about that image...?? Simply agreeing that managing your trades around an even R:R is easier better or worse then another R:R.[/quote]

Much like most/many Currency Market associated discussions it could be an infinite argument I guess.

Do what works for you. That is exactly what I mean to do.

[irok62011]

Simply agreeing that handling your trades about an even R:R is simpler not better or worse then another R:R. Much like most/many Currency Market related discussions it may be an infinite debate I suppose.

Do what works for you. That is what I intend to do. [/quote]

Yep I know everybody perceives trading differently. I need to state simpler for me!

Have a good one!

[lorenaabad20]

I must state simpler for me!

Have a good one!

Likewise to you.

[Strikersipk]

It seems like the traditional wisdom of century-old maxims like cut losses short, let profits run and quality not quantity has apparently been invalidated by some FF associates....but in traditional forum dialogue style the awkward questions and challenges receive the standard it works for me reply! Outstanding!

People can tweak all the settings they enjoy in an MT4 backtest to create the results look great but logic, even if nothing else, should provide a hint regarding the superior productivity of letting profits run over cutting edge profits short!

Oh did I mention'logic'...

[lorenaabad20]

Well it seems like the traditional wisdom of century-old maxims such as cut losses short, let profits run and quality not quantity has apparently been invalidated by some FF members....but in traditional forum discussion style the embarrassing questions and challenges receive the standard it works for me personally reply! Outstanding!

People may tweak all the settings they like in an MT4 backtest to create the results look great but logic, even if nothing else, should at least provide a clue regarding the superior productivity of letting profits run over cutting edge... What do century-old maxims or logic need to do with anything? Is this not the new age when investment bankers are paid hilarious sums for throwing logic out the window and taking risks.

Should we as traders, be in a position to do the same? And what is wrong with works for me?
When two traders had exact opposite methods and both created (similar) cash over a 20 year period it worked for both of these.

Correct?

[Strikersipk]

What do century-old maxims and/or logic have to do with anything? They've stood the test of time, are infinitely more productive, and also make perfect logical sense.




Is this not the new era when investment bankers are paid comic sums for throwing logic out the window and taking substantial risks. Yes it is, and the entire world is still reeling in the astrophic effects!




If people as traders, have the ability to do exactly the same? And what's wrong with functions for me? 'Works' is fine if you're satisfied to rest on your laurels and limit your potential.




If two traders had precise opposite methods and both made (similar) money over a 20 year period it worked for both of these.

Correct? If...

[lorenaabad20]

They have stood the test of time, are more effective, and make perfect logical sense.

Yes it is, and the world is still reeling from the astrophic outcomes!

'Works' is nice if you are suited to rest on your laurels and limit your potential.

If.... That's almost a fantastic answer and nearly as anticipated. You're predictable.

Someday you'll get the rest of it.

[Strikersipk]

That is almost a good answer and nearly as expected. You are predictable. Thanks, and yes my opinions on trading and the market are clear, unambiguous, logical, consistent, and therefore probably fairly predictable.

Whereas....



Someday you'll Find the rest of it. ?

[gagokva22]

Hi Pipmutt, just a question since I am not sure I understand your stance on the matter 100.

Can you think that somebody who's making consistent profits using a 1:1 R/R is wasting potential? And if yes, would you advoe them to alter?

[lorenaabad20]

Thanks, and yes my opinions on trading and the market are clear, unambiguous, logical, consistent, and therefore probably very predictable.
You are welcome. I thought you may have the ability to clear up that.
You have almost redeemed yourself.

Now what are you going to do?

[lorenaabad20]

Now what exactly are you going to do? Hint; you could say I will behave like the Fantastic little puppy That I'm

but you probably won't

[Strikersipk]

Now what exactly are you going to do? Response to 4extool, it is how discussions work.... https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135984.png

[Strikersipk]

Do you think that someone who's making consistent profits using a 1:1 R/R is wasting potential? If the market offers more for the same (or less) risk yet someone intentionally limits themselves into 1:1 then yes, wasting their own potential and the possible profit provided by the market.




And if yes, do you advoe them to alter? I think that it's just natural to want to encourage anybody to expect to be the best they can at anything they do, but then some people do not possess the drive or ambition to progress further. We are probably all guilty of it to some extent or other but it does not make it'right'.

[lorenaabad20]

but some people do not have the drive or ambition to progress further. We're probably all guilty of it to some degree or other but it does not make it'correct'. And what exactly does that have to do with consistency or potential?

Be specific please.

[Strikersipk]

And what does that have to do with consistency or potential?

Be specific please. What, you don't find the relation between the ambition or drive to progress further and potential?

Be specific please.

[lorenaabad20]

So what, you do not find the connection between the ambition or drive to advance farther and possible? Of course there's a link but not in the context of your aforementioned answers.


Be specific please. Now you are just sounding like a parrot. Not at all what I expected from you.
You're better than that?

[irene2395]

That is really helpful. How far can you trace this line of logic? What happens in the event that you trade 1:0.5 and increase your win rate even further?

One thing is certain. Once I am in profit and close the position, I have that profit. Should I wait for longer, I might well get less. Actually, the longer I hope for, the less my chance of getting it. At each stage I ask myself, Is the odds of getting more out of the commerce higher than 50%? If I've no fantastic reason for thinking it is, I am basically tossing a coin in that decision point, and so I exit. Well, it's of course possible to trade profitably with a greater risk than reward. Boris Schlosesenberg plans for 35 pips using a 50 pip stop and can be profitable with a little better than 70% win rate.

I am not likely to go there myself cause I dont need to. I have spent years developing method and the ability to pick entries that will yield at least equal my risk, over 60 percent of their time. I cant think of anything worse than one loser wiping out the benefits of two or more winners so a system like that is just not for me

[Strikersipk]

Of course there's a connection but not in the context of your aforementioned answers. How so? If there's potential for greater yet no drive or ambition to aspire to achieve better afterward it (possible ) is wasted, no?




Now you're just sounding like a parrot. Not at all what I expected out of you.
You are better than that? Ah I see, it's only okay for you to ask for specifics and clarity....my bad https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135984.png

[lorenaabad20]

How so? If there's possibility for better yet no drive or ambition to aspire to achieve better afterward it (potential) is wasted, no? Yes. But that (potential, drive, ambition) is not what this thread is all about. Can not you see that? Maybe you could start a Possible, Drive, Ambition ribbon. I'll be delighted to contribute.


Ah I see, it's only okay for you to ask for specifics and clarity....my poor https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135984.png Of course. It's only logical.

[Strikersipk]

Yes. But that (potential, drive, vision ) is not what this thread is all about. Sure, but different topics crop up at a discussion and can be applicable, anyway I think that it was in direct reply to some query from 4extool asking Do you think that someone who's making consistent profits with a 1:1 R/R is wasting potential? , I thought it only polite to reply.




Perhaps you could start a Potential, Drive, Ambition thread. I'll be happy to contribute. As tempting as this offer is I believe I'll decline thanks.





Of course. It is only logical. Of course....oh sorry I can't say that for fear of repeating everything you said, I mean , it is only logical....dammit I've done it . I am aware of, yes it logic, there!

[lorenaabad20]

I thought it only polite to answer. LOL !!! This could be a first... when you were concerned about being polite.

LIAR !!!


Of course....oh sorry I can not state that for fear of repeating what you mentioned, I mean , it is only logical....dammit I've done it again Don't reside in fear. Get it all out. You are getting ever.

congrats !!!

[Strikersipk]

LOL !!! This could be a first... when you were worried about being polite. Well quite obviously back when I believed it was polite to reply to 4extool!




LIAR !!! Nice, so kindly put!




Do not Reside in fear. Get it all out. You're getting ever closer.

congrats !!! You're right of course, how could anyone possibly fear your wrath! Thanks, I'm much more relaxed today....

congrats !!! (repeated with no care!)

[lorenaabad20]

Well very clearly back when I thought it was polite to reply to 4extool!

Nice, and so politely put!

You're right of course, how can anyone possibly fear your wrath! Thanks, I feel so much more relaxed today.... You're welcome once again.

What I truly think is, that anyone reading this thread is sick and tired of both people.

So if you think that you're the hero then just carry on with that belief.

When I first started posting you called me (among other items ) a troll. Since that moment, how frequently have you been accused of that? How frequently have you chased a thread?

A. To wander around; ramble. That's 1 definition of a troll and it suits you.

Quite simply

YOU AIN'T SHIT

[Strikersipk]

Now you're just sounding like a parrot.

LOL !!! That could be a first... when you're worried about being polite.

LIAR !!!

To wander around; ramble. That's 1 definition of a troll and it suits you perfectly.

Quite simply

YOU AIN'T SHIT Struggling to maintain a perfectly reasonable discussion and encourage your opinions and views with logic and reason you resort to slinging personal insults. Learning how to recognise one's limitations and take defeat gracefully is obviously not easy for some people....not good for someone aspiring to be a real trader.

[PablipkGG]

I concur, and with darko2010's post above. Just stay flexible why have these rigid R : R ratios and exploit the market for what it provides rather than some arbitrary number the trader decided he wants/needs.

Invariably vulnerability becomes corrected up/down as the market dictates and the transaction develops anyway....
Cant find myself agreeing with you to often Pipmutt, life could have to predictable, but your quote above is your best article on here.

M.

[lorenaabad20]

Unable to sustain a perfectly reasonable discussion and support your opinions and views with reason and logic you resort to slinging personal insults. Learning how to recognise one's limits and take conquer is obviously not easy for many people....not great for someone aspiring to be a real trader. Again, perfectly predictable. You want only to look back in your posts to discover the truth. Obvious to anyone.

And I accept the fact that you ain't shit.

Please, recall your own posts and you will realize that is pretty mild.

[gagokva22]

Okay, I just wanted to understand it. I don't think that it would be strange that you make suggestions to somebody who is, according to you, squandering potential, in other wordsleaving pips on the table.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that this could be a sin for some people. But would you agree that to go after that possible, somebody people could be forced to step from the comfort zone and that do more damage than good?

It happened to me and that I can say that; it isn't only where you want to go, but it's also how you need to get there. I opt for a stress free method of ( poker in my instance ) trading and go for those small profits that accumulate to something as time passes.

Most of us are talking on totally different levels and it's extra difficult for me since I seem to be the only one who is not a profitable trader, nevertheless. But that is not why I'm in this thread. I'm really searching for a few reinforcements of my ideas or new ideas which may allow me to progress.

About you two guys out it...I hope you can find some manner and agree to disagree:--RRB- I had something similar before this thread and it's just not fun.

[Strikersipk]

Cant find myself agreeing with you to often Pipmutt, life could get to predictable, but your quote above is the best article on this.

M. Cheers, however I am not sure got! Largely I agreed .

I welcome disagreement with my opinions as long as it is sensible discussion, it either strengthens and arouses my view or causes me to reconsider and look at alternatives, it can be extremely useful to have outside scrutiny and constructive criticism.

[lorenaabad20]

I welcome disagreement with my remarks as long as it's practical discussion, it either strengthens and justifies my opinion or induces me to rethink and look at alternatives, it can be extremely helpful to have outside scrutiny and constructive criticism. Well that is another lie.
I can not tell you how many articles I have read and it's all good as long as you agree with the mutt.

Get genuine. Should you disagree you're going to be called all kinds of items.

That's why still ai not shit.

[lorenaabad20]

locate some way. All apologies.
Only the way it has to be.

[Strikersipk]

okay, I just wanted to know it clearly. I really don't think that it would be strange that you make suggestions according to you, squandering potential, in different wordsleaving pips on the dining table. It's not only according to me, either there is more potential profit or there is not. Placing a random 1:1 would mean potential of market and trader. And that is not just about pips, it's management of risk, money, and commerce. Maybe it's 1:1's simplicity making it attractive?




I will be the first to admit that this might be a revelation for some people. But would you agree that to go after that potential that is extra, somebody people could be forced that do more harm than good and to step from the comfort zone? I would agree to a certain extent that we should stay within our comfort zone however if we wish to advance, realise our true potential, and ultimately excel we need to push ourselves. I believe like you say we could do more harm than good, before raising the bar 15, it's vital we condition and prepare ourselves.




Many of us are discussing on completely different levels and it's extra hard for me since I seem to be the only one who is not a profitable trader, yet. I doubt very much that you are alone! Most of the stuff you read about profitable traders is simply some of it not done on a level although great concept, concept! The thing is what difference, if it makes sense....




About you two guys out it...I hope you can find some way and agree to disagree:--RRB- I had something similar before this thread and it's just not fun. Discussions are fine, Lean gets violent when he can not support or shield his views! It's all fantastic clean fun and entertainment, I'm sure neither of us take it too badly, but I find that the best thing to do is simply ignore his rants that are small, he gets over it eventually! https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135954.png

[PablipkGG]

okay, I just wanted to understand it clearly. I don't think that it would be strange that you make suggestions according to you in different wordsleaving pips on the table.

I will be the first to admit that this could be a revelation for some people. But would you agree that to go then extra possible, somebody people could be forced that do more damage than good and to step from their comfort zone?

It occurred to me and I can say that; it's not just where you would like to go, but it's also how... Can it not be based on the strategy used?

Someone trading on a weekly basis for instance, might just pickup a couple of trades a week, in that case to shut the trades to early might become a problem, somebody on the 4hr picking up a couple of trades every day might close to early but then has another chance just around the corner, would it matter then when they closed to early?

So long as equity continues to rise, joyful days.

[lorenaabad20]

Discussions are fine, Lean gets violent when he can not support or defend his views! It's all fun and amusement, I am sure neither of us take it too seriously! Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135954.png That's a great one. You're funny!
I recall abuse with this forum. It generally comes from you as I recall.

But you are being so sweet today. I wonder why.

[Strikersipk]

But you are being so sweet now. I wonder why. 'Cos that is just the kinda guy I am. Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135954.png

Lean apart from being violent do you actually have anything to say that is remotely connected to the discussion? Something? Anything?

[lorenaabad20]

gets it ! Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135954.png Perhaps but I nearly forgot.

YOU STILL AIN'T SHIT

[lorenaabad20]

'Cos that is just the kinda guy I am. Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135954.png

Slim besides being abusive do you actually have anything to say that is remotely connected to the discussion? Something? Anything? I am waiting for your words of wisdom to guide me. I have not noticed any yet.

[lorenaabad20]

'

would you really have anything to say that is remotely linked to the conversation? Something? Anything?
BTW.... Not any more. I'm focused on being abusive. Can not you tell.

[Strikersipk]

Someone trading on a weekly basis for instance, might only pickup a few trades weekly, in that situation to close the trades to premature may become a problem, somebody on the 4hr picking up a few trades per day may close to premature but then has another chance just around the corner, would it matter then if they closed to premature? It would as far as trade costs and risk. Once a transaction is profitable vulnerability can be increased and risk can be lessened, all in/out 1:1 approach such as an rather than to zero. Then there's the issue of overtrading....




Provided That equity continues to increase, joyful days. Well it is certainly better than it decreasing that is for certain! https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135954.png

[lcoco]

I believe it is dependent upon the method...I'd be severely shortchanging myself if I took 1:1 r/r...I'd rather go to break first and hope to pinpoint more profits that usually happens....anyway different strokes for different people.

[Tataylo]

To say the obvious: there is no RR value that's best for every kind of strategy.

In general, trend-following and/or breakout kind egies can operate profitably because they seem to cut losses quickly, and let profits run, which results in a lower win% but higher RR trades.

Whereas trading counter-trend and/or across sideways channels will require a higher win% in order to be overall profitable, because it's required to consider profit earlier prior to a retracement happens, leading to lower RR.

If profit factor, which is the product of both win% and average RR, stays significantly more than 1 over time, then you're profitable. It is equally simple, and as difficult, as that.

[pdrusko]

Notes, IMHO.


Onward from 1,2:
.Few transactions (unreliable W:L), higher confidence (reliable R:R); v-v.
.Market-move (channel. . .counter-trend) (lots of trades) or intra-area motion (few trades) standardization presets value.
.Except, the source of a person's motive -- from intuition from a motive very little from the conscious mind,
to some motive one resists yet does if the answer feels difficult to take --
also presets worth, and also can correct one's energy (not adjusting SL during trade) and discretion (not set area to frame trade reason).
.Maybe the finest of three: Know chart area kind, correct confidence so can move SL-TP positively, and measure trust in reason the same regardless of motive's source.


On the motive ,
a quibble:
pairs --'Return to the expression'; afterward, any borrowed (range-trend) or derived (balance-momentum) convention.
Single symbols are range-trend, as they can disappear.

[gagokva22]

IMHO, notes.


Onward from 1,2:
.Few trades (undependable W:L), higher assurance (reliable R:R); v-v.
.Market-move (channel. . .counter-trend) (lots of trades) or intra-area movement (few trades) standardization presets value.
.Except, the source of one's reason -- from intuition from a reason very little in the conscious mind,
to a reason one resists yet does if the response... I did not call myself for nothing. That is way beyond my pay grade. https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135954.png

[pdrusko]

I did not call myself 4extool for nothing. That is far beyond my pay grade. https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135937.png Sorry, thinking aloud. Got a lot of junk, none of it works (yet).

The core of this ( instinct from a reason very little from the alert mind,
to some reason one resists yet does when the answer feels difficult to take) is alternative or add-on methods of reasoning a trade, by a gut sense in a good trade to emotional resistance toward a bad trade.
Just being comprehensive, maybe overly so. Plogical extras.

[irok62011]

Well it seems like the traditional wisdom of century-old maxims like cut losses short, let profits run and quality not quantity has seemingly been invalidated by some FF members....but in conventional forum dialogue style the awkward questions and challenges receive the standard it works for me response! Outstanding!

People can tweak all the settings they like in an MT4 backtest to make the results look good but logic, even if nothing else, should provide a hint about the superior productivity of letting profits run over... Here's a tiny yang to your ying. In my trading style there are numerous opportunities. I search for entries with likely profit goals. I will careless if I leave any on the dining table. There prepared to popup. To transactions my transactions are constantly recycled by me in retrospect and I require a much reward to what I was ready to risk. Lowering your profit goals allows a much better win ratio that in return allows compounding to shine (comparative ). Additionally I can do this when the market is trending and merging without having to reduce or lengthen take profits and ceases. A win ratio at the 60 percent or greater range a few trades with 2% risk per trade what do you want.

I understand this to be logical and equally as powerful as allowing your winners ride.The reason is I could rely on a good entrance for an x quantity of profit. Trade direction is simple and a good entrance with intelligent stop positioning permits a probable profit target.

Not at all disagreeing with letting profits ride. My profits are riding in loions that is various.

Really an edge to me is easy to find. I can locate an advantage with any sensible risk reward. I'm convinced all profitable traders could. At this point I could careless about my advantage or anybody. Really it's about the discipline to stick with what you understand and keep your risk per trade to risk to destroy. The powers in the numbers. If your on the right side of things, and the numbers do grow fast. You can have the best advantage in the world but it signifies nothing if you can not manage your money.

I have built this doctrine from the ground up as I'm sure you have built yours exactly the same. So I'm not challenging your article have a different philosophy. .

[Kttera]

I will care less Fascinating how terminology can evolve to mean the very opposite of what's said.

Suppose you quantify your desire for chocolate onto a 0 to 10 scale. 0 means you don't care in any way. 10 means you'd kill for it. This means you could care less if your desire steps 10. In case it measures 0, then it means you could not care less.

Only me being pedantic. Dropped as a young child on my head , undoubtedly.

[djkalyspain]

Entertaining how language can evolve to imply the exact opposite of what is said.

Guess you quantify your desire for chocolate onto a 0 to 10 scale. 0 means you don't care in any way. 10 means you would kill for this. This means you might care less, if your want measures 10. In case it measures 0, then it means you could not care less.

Only me being pedantic. Dropped for a child, no doubt. Fine https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.png

[Strikersipk]

Reducing your profit goals allows a better win ratio which in return enables compounding to excel (relative).

A win ratio at the 60% or greater range a few trades per day with 2% risk per trade what else do you need.

I understand this to be logical and equally as effective as allowing your winners ride.The rationale is I could rely on a fantastic entrance for an x amount of profit. An extremely reasonably presented point of view but you know I am not going to agree.... Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.png

Is trading about being right and winning a trade or can it be about earning as much money as possible for the risks taken?

In a market where you have no control and which can be volatile and unpredictable you've got to be right more times than you are wrong to generate a profit. That puts reliance and more emphasis on your own abilities and more significantly about the market agreeing with your perspective, and each new trade is new exposure to risk. Additionally, there are the issues of overhead and the risk of overtrading and chasing the market.

An alternative could be focussing on and handling something which you do have complete control over, exploiting the instances you are directly to the maximum, compounding profit and reducing risk within a trade, having decreased overhead, and less probability/need of overtrading.

The option of whether to exploit 1 trade for all it's worth, with less risk, rather than taking the money and running over and above, with much more risk, really is a simple and logical choice to make for me. I can not understand why anybody would avoid the chance to take money from the market?




You can have the greatest edge in the world but if you can not handle your money it signifies nothing. Handle your money....and your own trade.




so long as your constantly in the money who cares how you do it. Levels of performance and realising one's potential I suppose, in addition to the markets potential for becoming a cash cow. I guess it depends on what you are happy achieving from the efforts and if'functions' is rewarding and satisfying .

I suspect you will find some plogical reasons behind getting the impulse to bank profits as soon as possible and proceed to another trade...

[gagokva22]

I suspect you will find a few plogical motives behind getting the impulse to bank profits as soon as possible and proceed to a different trade.... And these motives could well mean the difference between becoming a winning or a losing trader.

Not many folks can conduct the 100M dash just as well as the 200m, let along the higher distances. No matter how you retrain and edue that runner, he will without a shadow of a doubt never win a marathon.

Jimmy creates another very strong statement about departing pips to the table. He seems fine with it. That is when trading such R/R ratios an import an trade to have. Individuals who feel that they lost out will likely never have the ability to justify trading.

Men, I want you happy trading. It's my birthday now 42 god help me:--RRB- I am on my way to the airport to get a couple of days in Thailand.

All of the best.

[Chelinevado]

You have very interesting theories indeed https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.png But the RR variable is determined not by yout mathemetical projections or opinions but by the market conditions . 1 can't be put by you risk 2 reward ratio if the market just provides 1 risk 1 reward.

[Strikersipk]

It's my birthday now 42 god help me:--RRB- I'm in my way to the airport to get a brief few days in Thailand. Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135944sds1809050081.png

Have a great one!

[K]

Cindyxxx suggest you make a study in risk/reward.
. . .your on the ideal path. . The risk% is extremely important whether you would like reward.

You want atleast 50 trades. Subsequently its possibel to calculate excact risk%,
that's best for you. . https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.png

[irene2395]

If profit variable, which is the product of the two win% and average RR, stays significantly more than 1 time, then you are profitable. It is equally as easy, and as difficult, as that. Ill take a profit factor of 1.1 that trades 10 times every day of over a system with a profit factor of 10 that trades 10 times a year. The impact of compounding and commerce frequency may have a more substantial impact on gains than profit variable


Reducing your profit targets allows a better win ratio which in return enables compounding to excel (relative). I can do this when the market is trending and consolidating with the very same results without having to reduce or lengthen take profits and ceases. A win ratio in greater or the 60% range a few trades with two% risk per trade what else would you need.
That is my experience also. It is not an idea or theory however proven by myself in the market

the most profitable traders with Oanda throughout the last 7 days trading EUR/USD averaged 15.9 pips per winning trade and 14.3 pips per losing trade. Thats exactly what the men who are earning the money are currently doing - FACT!

[selusapistan]

THIS VIDEO IS SOMWHAT ON TOPIC
Inserted Video https://www.youtube.com/embed/hNdDEGuCbqI?origin=https://www.forum.com

[layunny]

Cindyxxx suggest you create a research in risk/reward.
. . .your on the ideal path. . The risk% is very important if you want reward.

You want atleast 50 trades. Subsequently its possibel to calculate excact risk%,
that is optimal for you. . Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.png Truth isn't any way can do the job. It is too random to conduct through the various things that increase or decrease the profit curve here. In the ideal market conditions targeting reward ratios that are greater to risk will achieve higher yields. Nonetheless, it is a generalization to state this could be the case for all traders.

It is a no brainer FOR ME to change to exchange this way because my entries are great in most market conditions so I will comfortably increase my risk supplied I will still exchange the same manner without emotions coming to play, lower my target to one that is achieved more frequently and so achieve the same or better outcomes. (also for all the reason I outlined in my initial article in this thread which I can't be bothered repeating).

This is not system hopping, just adapting my method as my confidence grows and consequently my desire to make epic 100 -200 pip trades abruptly is no longer required by my ego.

Everyones different it has taken me literally years to find an exit method I am comfy with. My previous one was great but I think this to be greater FOR ME.

Do your testing however.

[layunny]

Men, I want you happy trading. It is my birthday now 42 god help me:--RRB- I'm in my way to the airport to get a quick few days in Thailand.

All of the best. No one cares https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.png

[Strikersipk]

THIS VIDEO IS SOMWHAT ON TOPIC Nah, apparently the conventional wisdom of century-old maxims and all the regularly repeated advice from recognized and well respected experts is wrong, FF members understand better.... https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.png

[Strikersipk]

the most profitable traders using Oanda over the previous 7 days trading EUR/USD averaged 15.9 pips each winning trade and 14.3 pips each losing trade. Thats exactly what the men who are earning the money do - FACT! The (unreliably reported) short term execution of Oanda traders is now the yardstick by which we measure success, and people are the folks we should aspire to emulate within our trading? Really?

Oh boy, why didn't anyone tell me this before!

~16 pips 1:1 trading Eur/Usd within the past week, wooohooo! https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.png

[layunny]

An option could be focussing on and handling something which you do have total control over, exploiting the instances you're right to the maximum, compounding profit and reducing risk in a commerce, having reduced overhead, and less probability/need of overtrading.

The option of whether to exploit 1 trade for all it's worth, without risk, rather than taking the cash and running over and above, with much more risk, really is a simple and logical choice to make for me personally. I can't understand why anyone would purposely avoid the chance to make money... You do not have to hold a 200 pip exchange to it's 200 pip top or underside maximize it's potential. You may note that in the very best prices that the market will go the fastest out of there is the scalpers who leap out. . The heavyweights shaking out and all the games in between all the way to that 200 pip target.

Anyway... Those 200 pp trades will move the fastest from the best prices and you only have to add to them a few times in the lower end of the spectrum to get the identical impact of hanging on for the full monty. Trouble is you can't have your cake and eat it as well. To perform both requires some serious balls and openness to get pipped out of trades that are great over and over again. This IS plogically demeaning, and not even necessary. The benefits are of course satisfying,,, when they repay.

My only point is... as you said, in handling your own trade and managing your cash you do not have to remain in the market and ch the top or base to maximize a excellent call. Give it more weight and you have to note it early on. It's still possible to let your winners pay you cut your losses short on 1:1 r:r.

Anyway that's my argument on that. I could make a case for either manner.

Icing with this particular cake is the fact that markets range 75% of the time.

[sarai9m]

In my expertise traders will always favor 60% win rate and 1/1 r/r over 40% win rate and 2/1 r/r...

People just unconsciously wish to be a winner!!!

I would take 40 percent at 2/1 anyday, palms down... not likely to go into detail, so there is out traders out there that is going to explain why, in case you're interested.

Expectancy and potential are just two things that have to be researched though...

[sarai9m]

http://www.nobrainertrades.com/2010/01/optimal-stop-loss-take-profit-placement.html

[Strikersipk]

You don't have to hold a 200 pip trade to it is 200 pip top or underside maximize it's potential. I agree, but surely when the market has the capability to supply more then it would be counter productive to deny it that opportunity simply due to some arbitrary R:R figure conjured up by a trader who has a need to be right more times than incorrect and an impulse to continuously bank profit, which wouldn't make sound financial or logical sense could it?

I know there's an expression about a bird in the hand but come on, why settle for one bird when there are potentially two, three, or more just there for the taking, particularly when the risk is the same or not.

[samufd]

I favor these numbers:
3 percent gain and 5 percent drop per day with easy idiotic system that generate 80% win rate a month (20-21 days commerce )....in May....

How it sounds like? https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135938.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135939.png

[Strikersipk]

Within my expertise traders will always prefer 60% win rate and 1/1 r/r over 40% win rate and 2/1 r/r... That is the bit I am having difficulty understanding, the reason why?




People just instinctively want to be a winner!!! Perhaps the explanation really is that simple....


Plogy, what a bummer that is!

[layunny]

I agree, but surely when the market has the potential to supply more then it would be counter productive to deny it that opportunity only due to some random R:R figure conjured up by a trader that has a need to be right more times than incorrect and an impulse to continuously bank profit, which wouldn't make sound financial or logical sense would it?

I know there is a saying about a bird in the hand but come on, why settle for one bird whenever there are potentially two, three, or more simply there for the taking, especially when the risk is the same... Seems like greed to me. . The key word being.

Why opt for a POTENTIAL 5 per week when I can make a LIKELY 5 percent a week and perform so most weeks and attract investors.

The key for me in all this really is the unpredictability that is taken out of my equity curve.

I have never known or been able to take PARTIAL profits. I think personally, although always seemed so half arsed to me. Who knows.

Hey I'm still learning, not afraid to admit that.

[sarai9m]

Maybe people do not stop to consider the markets we are trading.

The Foreign Exchange markets are the most trending of some markets out there, the capacity for rewards compared to risk are immense.

Here is the very best edge most of us possess before we have even considered anything else, learn to exploit only a portion of that.

[Strikersipk]

Sounds Just like greed to me.. The keyword being possibly. It is all possibly, nothing is guaranteed. When it's greed then the other side of the coin is anxiety, the fear of dropping (profit). Neither really have an area least of fear, in trading, it could be paralysing.




Why go for a POTENTIAL 5 % a week when I will make a LIKELY 5 % a week and do so most weeks and attract investors.

The key for me in all this is that the unpredictability that is taken out of my equity curve. Right, so like I mentioned before....

In a market where you have no control and which can be unpredictable and volatile you've got to be more times than you're wrong to generate a profit. That places dependence and more emphasis on your own abilities that are predictive and more significantly about the market agreeing with your view, and every new trade is new exposure to risk.

An alternative could be....




I have never understood or been able to take PARTIAL profits. I think one I will probably adapt to something of this type personally, although Consistently seemed so half arsed to me personally. Who knows. Adjusting exposure (down and up ) is an integral component of trading in my view, the market is shades and rarely black or white.




Hey I am still learning, not afraid to admit that. Me too, there is always something new, it is what keeps the game interesting differently trading is about as dull as working on a factory production line, a snoozefest!

[sarai9m]

Think of it like chess...

I'm just sacrificing pawns every day seeking to capture rooks and queens.

I'm expecting to lose more bits than I win, but im going to win every game...

(that's some quality bullshit.... But true nonetheless...)

[irene2395]

The (unreliably reported) short term performance of Oanda traders is now the yardstick by which we measure success, and those are the folks we ought to aspire to emulate within our trading? Really?

Oh boy, why did not anybody tell me before!

~16 pips 1:1 trading Eur/Usd within the past week, wooohooo! Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135909.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135909.pnghttps://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135909.png Oanda has the largest client base in the industry and also the data sample comprises both retail and institutional traders. 16 pips/trade trading EUR/USD 1:1 made them the top earners with the greatest broker.

I guess youve been pyramiding to the downtrend since 1.32 cause you're superior to this group? Nobody trades the forex market, or any other market this way and consistently makes money. Buy and hold hasnt worked for 10 years. The knowledge you're using to argue your point is redundant. If you let profits run in forex you are going to give them.

A significant trait to possess is adaptability. Sarcastic debate isn't helpful whatsoever

The forex markets are the most trending of some markets out there, Thats a dream. The forex trends and consolidates the same as stocks and commodities. The forex market is challenging to trade than other markets due to volatility. It has become popular as it moves quickly, not because it trends more. It is the ideal market for impatient people and thats the same reason the average forex account continues 3 weeks

[sarai9m]

Thats a myth. The Currency Market consolidates and tendencies the same as equities and commodities. The Currency Market market is difficult to exchange than other markets because of volatility. It has become popular as it moves fast, not because it tendencies more. It's the best market for impatient folks and thats the same reason the average Currency Market account continues 3 months possibly true, maybe not. .

Can't actually say Currency Market is more volatile than equities or commodities though, you ever watch gold and oil onto m15?

[layunny]

It is all potentially, nothing is guaranteed. When it's greed then another side of the coin is fear, the fear of dropping (profit). Neither have a place in trading, least of all fear, it could be paralysing.

Adjusting exposure (up and down) is an essential part of trading in my view, the market is sunglasses and seldom white or black.
All true... But I'm sure you will acknowledge with exploiting a fantastic point of entry in the market 1:1 is much more LIKELY (not guaranteed) the big ones are much more potentially.

As or point number two... I will aspire to this at some point I think.

Will see the way I go to the next few months on my new MO.. Bearing that in mind. But if it doesn't break. I'm not fixing it https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135909.png.

Thank you for your thoughts on this. GotId run until those pesky beagles get a sniff haha

[irene2395]

maybe true, perhaps not. .

Can't really say forex is much more volatile than stocks or commodities though, you ever watch gold and oil on m15? Good response

I have not watched these instruments on this time period

Mayby its not more volatile, but I will guarantee you, it tendencies no differently

There has been some great comments in this thread. There trully is an abundance of experience and alot of thought become the challenge of gambling amongst the members of this forum. If we all agreed with each other we would have no one. Its a debate amongst men and women that are passionate. Admire each other for this

[lcoco]

possibly true, maybe not. .

Can not actually say forex is more volatile than stocks or commodities though, you actually watch gold and oil on m15? Gold and oil are equally commodites and currencies!

[Strikersipk]

Oanda has the largest client base in the business and the data sample comprises both retail and institutional traders. 16 pips/trade trading EUR/USD 1:1 made them the best earners with the largest broker. Let's presume those stats ready by Oanda themselves are accurate and agent, how about a few more stats such as consistency, account strength, overall return on risk, and overall PL? Also not only for a week!




I suppose youve been pyramiding to the downtrend because 1.32 cause you're superior for this group? I am not attempting to demone any superiority, this is fairly basic stuff as far as trading goes, I am simply presenting a logical and fiscally sound view contradictory what others have introduced, incidentally one that is universally shared and accepted among several family name successful, experienced, and respected professional traders and analysts. I've never heard advising or advoing cutting profits short and planning for 1:1.

When it comes selling Eur/Usd, what I do/did is immaterial to the dialogue but I was selling any rallies a while ago and looking for 1.25, there is a before-the-fact article to that effect about here some place if you are really that interested or it makes any difference to the dialogue.




No one trades the forex market, or any other market such a way and makes money any more. Buy and hold hasnt worked for a decade. The knowledge you're using to argue your point is redundant Hardly, as can be evidenced for example by the downtrend in Eur/Usd and long term trends in different devices.

[Strikersipk]

All true... But I am sure you will admit with exploiting a fantastic point of entry in the market 1:1 is much more LIKELY (not guaranteed) the big ones are much more potentially. Just playing the odds my friend and trying to get what I can. Potentially....likely....semantics?




However, if it doesn't break. I am not fixing it https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135909.png. No but possibly you could enhance it and make it function better, that would be good ?




Thank you for your thoughts on this. GotId run until those pesky beagles get a tease haha lol, not seen them for a while, likely obtained their teeth into a juicy bone elsewheres! https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135909.png

[sarai9m]

gold and oil are both commodites and currencies! Ok, okay...

maybe what I should of stated is...

Forex trends very well and there's an Chance to exploit that for higher R/R

[Pan]

Let's assume those stats ready by Oanda themselves are accurate and agent, how about a few more stats like consistency, account longevity, overall return on risk, and overall PL? Also not just for a week! You could look at FF's trade explorers. The 2012 chief board for accounts reveals the exact same pattern. High win rates and approx win reduction ratios for all of the top earners.

BUT beware statistics! Look past the averages and you will see for the best performers are lots of situations the typical that the maximum wins. It seems they're not cutting all their winners short, but are carrying profit when the possible arises.

[Karim6191]

A SL is running and TP exactly the same, no fantastic magic behind it is there actually.

SL's are fine since they restrict your loss, which is a good thing.

TP's on the flip side, restrict your profit, which is a bad thing.

Clearly you need to do what works best for the method and time, in this case you believe 1:1 is excellent for you, I like getting the strange 100 profit from risking 10.

Main problem with 1:1 is, your next loss writes off your preceding profit, atleast with 2:1, even if you lose 50% of the time your still gaining ground.

[layunny]

You could look at FF's trade explorers. The 2012 leader board for accounts reveals the same pattern. High win rates and approx 1:1 typical win loss ratios for the top earners.

BUT beware statistics! Look past the averages and you will realize that the maximum wins for most of the top performers are many times the typical. It appears they're not cutting their winners brief, but are taking more profit once the possible arises. Notice how long a account may stay up the top for. If you look at the winners of these trading competitions those men get lucky.

Not knocking the logic of letting winners run but 2012 isn't over https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135909.png ideally FF let GfT dealbook accounts on commerce explorer earlier then.

That said I better go and have a sticky beak before jumping to conclusions.

I'd rather a steady spot at the center than an unsustainable spot on top.

[layunny]

Main issue with 1:1 is, your following reduction writes off your previous profit, atleast with 2:1, even in the event that you lose 50 percent of the time that your still gaining ground. Should you allow you SL get hit yes

[Karim6191]

If you allow you SL get hit yes If your SL gets hit but then the market goes much reduced, then it is a good SL, if it functions on it then it is a bad SL which happens.

The majority of people are trading 1:1 generally 200TP, 200SL through H4 charts so the chief board will be full of them.

[layunny]

Notice how long a account can remain up the top for. If you look at the winners of the trading competitions those guys get lucky.

Not knocking the logic of letting winners run but 2012 is not over yet https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135909.png ideally FF let GfT dealbook accounts on trade explorer before then.

That said I better go and have a sticky beak before jumping to conclusions.

I'd rather a steady spot at the center than an unsustainable spot on very top. So the man at the top is currently sitting on nearly 50 percent drawdown and the trade remains open. Election in the mix and Monday gap that is potential.

I wager his account is massive lol... not. I have seen enough

[Nacho]

should you allow you SL get hit yes That's the bottom line. Its moot with this white and black dialog as commerce management can change the RR dynamics dramatically in trade. Trade direction, its where the real art of trading takes place and can change a entry/exit method that is fixed, into a really profitable method, and vice-versa.

[Pan]

Notice how long a account can stay up the top for. When you look at the winners of these trading competitions those guys get lucky too.

Not knocking the logic of letting winners run but 2012 isn't over https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135880.png ideally FF allow GfT dealbook accounts on trade explorer earlier then.

That said I better go and have a sticky beak before jumping to conclusions.

I had rather a steady spot at the center compared to an unsustainable spot on very top. I concede that appearing at the lucky winners on Oanda or FF isn't really evidence of anything far. Everyone has to do what works best with their method.

[irok62011]

Handle your money....and your trade.
Handling the trade is the advantage!




I guess there are a few plogical reasons behind having the urge to bank profits as soon as possible and move on to a different trade.... [/quote]

I'm not sure why there would need to become a plogical reason to make profits. A trade can be held by me just as long as you can. Obviously your fixed on getting the maximum out of each trade. Transactions can turn against you at the drop of a dime in doing this. Especially in the financial catastrophe that we're in right now. I know what my setup is worth 70 percent of the time. You do not know what your set up is worth if you attempt to ride it. It could keep going it might reverse it could stay flat. Way to many factors for my and out method.

Also you'd said there are far more risks opening up new trades verse holding a winner. My account proves to differ. It's much easier for me to predict a short term move then a long-term move. I capitalize on short term moves that are probable. I can bank the profits as you bank with carrying a winner. When you are turned against by your winner I'm still banking short term profits.

I know you will most likely still disagree. It's probably a matter!

Ha Ha! Just messing with you!

[irok62011]

In my experience traders will always favor 60% win rate and 1/1 r/r over 40% gain rate and 2/1 r/r...

People simply instinctively want to be a winner!!!

I would take 40 percent at 2/1 anyday, hands down... not going to go into detail, there's better traders out there which will explain why, in case you are interested.

Expectancy and possible are just two things which have to be explored though... Which are such much better traders at. You'll be more profitable in this situation if you chosen the 1:1 RR. The account will compound much faster this way. You may have obtained some bunk advice from those so called better traders and also there faulty perception. Not faulty due to there R:R. Flawed due to there bias.

In case your not compounding who cares which one you choose. You get exactly the very same effects. Except one way you lose more.

Like you mentioned expectancy and possible. Both potential and expectancy increases to take profits. Now in case you try to increase your reward both decrease.

[lDokut07]

I'm not likely to read the whole thread.

1: 1 is a good ratio to find out expectancy when paper trading a egy. It's user friendly and provides statistics over a sample that is reasonable. That, in my own opinion is it. After that it is all negative.

Why close a trade at 1: 1? Why don't you move the stop to 95% and hold out for more? When it gets to 5: 1, then move your stop to 2: 1, and so on. I give this occurs but sometimes you find a top or a bottom and the whole world is your lobster.

The rest of what I think about settling for 1: 1 is unprintable and in my opinion threads in this way could only be started by brokers low on liquidity. Much like Cloggie, who lost his mind trying to make sense of those articles in the Euro thread, I sometimes wonder if forum is present only to give money to the market in the (expletive deleted); (expletive deleted); (expletive deleted) buddies of the Great Gonzo.

[irok62011]

Entertaining how language can evolve to mean the very opposite of what is said.

Suppose you quantify your desire for chocolate on a 0 to 10 scale. 0 means that you don't care. 10 means you'd kill for it. This means that you could care less if 10 is measured by your want. In case it measures 0, then it means you couldn't care less.

Only me being pedantic. Dropped in my head as a young child , undoubtedly. Ha Ha nice article. What I meant care less is. I don't have a problem with my edge. I was implying once you locate an edge managing it is much more significant then the border itself. An edge money management can't assist you, In case you haven't discovered. If you locate an edge money management will guarantee your edge.

I certainly do enjoy chocolate though!

I Completely understand your article although it has nothing to do with my intent of the article .

[irok62011]

I'm not likely to read the entire thread so apologies beforehand if these points have already been made.

1: 1 is a fantastic ratio to find out expectancy when paper trading a egy. It's easy to use and gives statistics over a sample that is reasonable. That, in my own view is it. After that it is all negative.

Why close a commerce at 1: 1? Why not hold out for more and move the stop? When it gets to 5: 1, then move your stop to two: 1, etc. I give this rarely occurs but occasionally you find a top or a bottom and the entire world is... I understand there is no 1 approach to trade. Win Ratio is relative to Risk Entry line.

You are able to tweak it any way you want so long as your in the money while maximizing your profits relative to the way you trade.

Your clearly bias to the manner in which you trade. The one thing that is reasonable if your going to knock on out an R value. Each egy is different. 1 egy may work better with a 2:1 RR another might work better with a 1:1 RR. My egy has been personally back tested by me and it is much more effective with a 1:1 R

[Tataylo]

Ill have a profit factor of 1.1 that trades 10 times a day of over a system using a profit factor of 10 that trades 10 times per year. The effect of compounding and trade frequency may have a more significant effect on profits than profit factor Yes, I agree.

[irok62011]

Yes, I agree. I don't come here very often these days but if I do I have the luxury of enlightenment. From you of course!

I agree with your literature as I think exactly the identical manner just not as precise.

Thanks!

[Strikersipk]

That Is the bottom line. Its pointless having this white and black conversation as commerce management can change the RR dynamics dramatically from trade to trade. Trade management, its own where the real art can change a entry/exit system that is fixed and of trading happens, into a really profitable method, also vice-versa. Totally agree, that is it in a nutshell.

[Strikersipk]

Handling the trade is your edge! Is that a question or a statement? If you agree managing a trade is (part of) your edge then how , what do you consider managing a trade? From the sounds of everything you have said it's a all in all out 1:1 so where's the trade administration?





I can hold a trade as long as you can. Then the obvious question is why not you? Feeling ok, the solution is in the next paragraph,'' It's easier for me to forecast a short term move then a long term move so your focus is on calling direction instead of exploiting some of those outstanding trends we've and the disgusting risk:reward that can be gained. Personally I would find that a limitation as opposed to an advantage.




It's easier for me to forecast a short term move then a long term move. Short term moves are capitalized on by me. I am able to bank the profits as you bank with carrying a winner. Now when you are turned against by your winner I'm still banking short term profits. You're assuming that short term moves can not be incorporated into holding a profitable trade for so long as the market features profit. Decreasing and increasing exposure is, as I mentioned previously, an essential part of trading. While you're starting and closing trades, taking on risk, paying and forecasting the short term move a longer term trader is managing his trade, decreasing risk, maximising profit, and saving.

And what's this about compounding? One can compound profits without needing to close a trade and bank the profit, compounding isn't more advantageous to short term trades or exclusive .




I know you will probably still disagree. It's probably a matter!

Ha Ha! Just messing with you! Lol, nah it's a mathematical and logical one! Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135880.png

Sorry I'm with the experts on this one, let profits run...

[Strikersipk]

Like Cloggie, who lost his mind trying to make sense of those articles in the Euro thread, I sometimes wonder if forum exists only to give money to the market from the (expletive deleted); (expletive deleted); (expletive deleted) buddies of the Great Gonzo. Lol, fantastic stuff! https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135881.png

[irok62011]

Is that a question or a statement? If you concur handling a commerce is (part of) your advantage then how , what do you consider handling a trade? By the sounds of what you have said it is a simple all in all out 1:1 so where is the trade management?





Then the obvious question is why not you? Ah ok, the solution is in the next paragraph, It's easier for me to predict a short term movement then a long term move so that your focus is on predicting direction rather than exploiting a number of those outstanding trends we've and the obscene risk:reward... I manage my trades. Occasionally I grapple and physically handle. I'm not stuck at an even R:R I just initially egize about
an even R:R
I understand your points. None of them use to the way I trade.

Yes you can make numerous trades in 1 place. My egy does not incorporate this method.

Your glass is half empty if you do not understand the logic of my articles.

Additionally the math apply to my perception as well. I don't need to prove to you.

You appear to expect to get a new trend or your winners . I don't hope anything. I understand what my setup is worth and I profit in consolidating markets and trending markets. Markets consolidate 80 percent of the time and trend 20%.

The distinction is understand what you do works and you do not understand exactly why what I do works.

In case you don't believe what I do works. Whatever I'm not going to waste my time replying.

Oh yeah and also a quicker turnaround allows for a more effective compounding process. So not sure how you do not understand. Frequency trading clearly is beneficial to the compounding process term trades because of it's effectiveness to grow your account at higher rates.

Any Just how it is not that serious you do your thing and I will do mine.

You can have the last word my friend!

[Strikersipk]

You seem to expect for a new trend or your own winners to ride. I don't hope anything. I know what my setup is I and worth profit in consolidating markets and trending markets. Markets tendency 20% and consolidate 80% of their time. I consider the market as I discover it, trends and ranges, I trade both. The difference is I don't have any predefined limit on profit, the market tells me if that's 50 pips or 500 pips I'll take whatever I can get, I'll use a profitable trade for so far as I can. To me this makes sense both financially and logically.




The distinction is understand why what you do works and you do not know why what I do works.

If you don't think what I do works. Whatever I'm not going to waste my time replying to a naysayer. I don't have any idea if what you do works or not, how would I, and why would it make any difference to the dialogue? All I am saying is that when the market offers more profit it sounds illogical not to want to take it.




Oh yeah and a faster turnaround allows for a much more successful compounding process. So not sure how you do not know. Greater frequency trading obviously is more valuable to the compounding process longer term trades because of it's effectiveness to grow your account at higher rates. The account grows in both scenarios. Just as loss is still a reduction profit is still profit, both appear on equity and that equity can be untilized. Sorry, your debate about compounding simply doesn't hold water.




Your glass is half empty if you don't understand the logic of your own posts.

If you don't think what I do works. Whatever I'm not going to waste my time replying to a naysayer.

Additionally the mathematics apply to my logic too. I don't need to show that to you.

Any How it's not that severe you do your own thing and I'll do mine. Yep, that's the way these discussions usually wind. That alone would make me question how convinced even you are of your ideas.

Like I said earlier, I am with the pros on this one, let profits run...

[irok62011]

I consider the market as I find it, trends and ranges, I exchange equally. The difference is I don't have any predefined limit on profit, the market tells me if that's 50 pips or 500 pips I'll take anything I could get, I'll use a profitable trade as I can. To me that makes great sense both financially as well as logically.




I don't have any idea if what you do works or not, how do I, and why would it make any difference to the discussion? All I am saying is that if the market offers additional profit it sounds illogical not to desire... I was hoping your last words will be I agree to disagree.

Whether there's equity on your balance unrealized or not is irrelevant to the frequency of your trades. You may use your new discovered equity as I am using it on a different term trade. Again I am turning profits quicker compounding at a quicker rate.

This should be simple to comprehend.

In my opinion it's not foolish or logical to let your trades run. Because there are many setups a day to allow me to exchange I do not need to optimize profits in 1 trade


I look to get a 2000% return per year. Trading the way I exchange. You look for less or more. I exchange the us stock market in the day time and transfer my balance at the end of the day to the forex market at night. Wake up at 4 Am and move it back into the stock market.

So yeah I am convinced that my methodology works just fine!
Averaging.5 to 1 percent a day at the forex market and also a bit more then 1 percent per day from the stock market.

Also this disagreement does not need to finish negatively. That was not my goal from the beginning. It takes two to tango.

You are not a naysayer simply somebody with a solid opinion.I can honor that!

I personally hate to leave things on a bad note.

[Strikersipk]

Whether there is equity in your balance or not is irrelevant to the frequency of your transactions. You may use your new discovered equity on another longer term trade as I'm using it on another term trade. I am turning profits faster compounding at a faster rate.

This should be simple to comprehend. What you're saying isn't hard to comprehend, the issue is it does not actually make sense. Equity is equity, if that's calculated on a commerce or unrealised profit on a profitable commerce, it is all equity.

Trading short-term'frequently' does not automatically mean greater return than a longer term commerce, a long term trader can and frequently does still take advantage of short-term movements, and can also compound unrealised profit from ongoing profitable trades.




To me it is not illogical or logical to let your transactions operate. Nobody can predict the future. Since there are many setups a day for me to trade I do not need to maximize profits in one trade So you don't think risk:reward is of any importance in regards to performance? You do not feel that limiting profit is illogical? Realising possible? Well okay then....




I look for a 2000% return per Year. Lol, okay!




I look for a 2000% return per Year.

Averaging.5 to 1 percent a day at the forex market plus a little more then 1% per day from the stock market. I calculate that to be over 6,000% pa compounded but what the hey https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135881.png




I hate to leave things on a bad note. https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135881.png https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135881.png

[Karim6191]

I had been hoping your last words were likely to be I agree to disagree.

Whether there is equity on your balance or not is irrelevant to this frequency of your trades. You might use your new discovered equity as I am using it. I am turning profits quicker compounding at a quicker rate.

This ought to be easy to comprehend.

To me it is not illogical or logical to let your trades run. Because there are lots of setups a day to allow me to trade I do not have to maximize profits in 1 transaction


I search for... Errrrrmmm!!

Okay in case a trading 200SL 200TP afterward on this scale it is difficult to find that a tendency strong enough to justify holding more so your right, but your sounding more swinger / scalper so say 30:30?? There are times in which the tendency is a close or cert enough and you will get 100 - 200pips from the exact same trade, the it is wiser to wait and hold.

Higher frequency is better for compounding ofcourse, in some ways it is easier than longer term well in theory micro tendencies are easier to spot, but difficult cause it is fast and anxiety full which leads to errors and sometimes mulitple losers if you attempt to struggle against the tendency seeking to pick a bottom.

[irok62011]

Everything you are saying is easy to comprehend, the issue is that it does not really make sense. Money is equity, if that is realised on a commerce or unrealised profit on a profitable commerce, it is all equity.

Trading short term'frequently' does not automatically mean higher return compared to a longer term commerce, a long term trader may and often does still take advantage of short term moves, and may also compound unrealised profit from ongoing profitable trades.

If your trading both shorter and longer! Your incorrect! Your longer term transactions... Here's a sarcastic hug back to you!

[irok62011]

Errrrrmmm!!

Okay in case a trading 200SL 200TP then on this scale it is hard to see a tendency strong enough to warrant holding longer so your best, but your sounding more swinger / scalper so say 30:30?? There are occasions where the tendency is a near or cert enough and you'll get 100 - 200pips from precisely the same trade, wait and the it is wiser to hold.

Greater frequency is better for compounding ofcourse, in some ways it is easier than longer term well in theory micro trends are easier to spot, but hard cause it is fast and stress full which leads to errors... Yeah Id swing. Swings don't last a day or so!

[irok62011]

Pip mutt

It's illogical not to take unknown prospective profits. I would concur, if I were able to forecast the future then. But who's to say which transactions will operate and which ones are not. There's no guarantee except something about the table.


You clearly have a superiority complex. A year nobody can, if you can not do 2000 percent. Right! Shit I was up 300 made at the options market in will! Buying puts! Options traders with money management can easily achieve 2000 percent a year.

I don't rule out chances another sign your glass is half empty.

Also the 2000 percent is what I look for did not say thats what my account is projected to achieve. My projections relative to my stats are higher in the moment. An even risk benefit with a 72% gain ratio is going to do that! I'm sure my win rate is going to settle into the mid century in the high fies. I am simply doing very well at the moment.

Also your incorrect about the compounding process no matter how much you wish to tweek the initial conversation so stop trying to control your answers. They don't make sense! Higher frequency with the gain ratio and money management clearly compounds at a rate simply due to high turn around rate. Your longer term transactions can not compound equally to term transactions that are shorter even if you trade short term transactions along with your long term ones.

If you try to make the most of your profits and the transaction works against you. You eliminate money and time. In a traders instance time is money.

[Strikersipk]

I manage my trades. I grapple and physically manage also. I'm not stuck in an even RI just originally egize around
an even R:R So after all that back and forth you're not even having a fixed 1:1 https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135881.png




It is illogical not to take unknown future profits. Huh?




You clearly have a superiority complex. If you can not do 2000 percent annually nobody can. Right Thanks for your investigation Doc, is where you start making personal remarks and insults?

As for 6,000% return pa I have no idea whether anybody can get it done or not, I have never seen sustainable returns like that until I do I can only assume they're unachievable. Mind you I have not met any multi billionaire forex traders....yet! Are you going to be the first?




I don't rule out possibilities another sign that your glass is half empty. I don't believe in Santa or the Tooth Fairy either, I figure I am just a born sceptic huh.




Additionally your incorrect about the compounding procedure no matter how much you want to tweek the initial conversation so stop trying to manipulate your replies. My replies addressed the question about compounding, realised and unrealised profit, and equity. Consider it for some time and maybe you'll understand, it's only a math calculation. Or don't....




If you try to maximize your profits and the transaction turns against you. You eliminate both time and cash. In a traders instance time is money. Have you never heard of locking in profit? Adjusting stops? Reducing exposure?

Come on, don't get ridiculous now, we have had a reasonable discussion this way but I believe we're quickly approaching the point where everything gets a bit shaky, let's not go there, eh

https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135881.png https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135881.png

[irok62011]

To elaborate! Lets say you have an x quantity of money at a haul that is long. The trade ends up working for you. You internet 600 pips holding the trade. I trade the identical quantity of capital and I trade exactly the identical move. Except I exit and short buy so forth and long. Basically trading the fractals of the whole move. I possess the ability to web pips together with my account trading fractals as part of your account is stuck through the ups and downs. So yeah you are able to use accessible margin and trade short term along with your long-term capital but your account is in a dis advatage as far as optimizing possible through the compounding process

Does this make sense!

I didn't say this is simpler. I really don't search for the trend I search during the fashion for fractals that are likely. We are still in precisely the same trade I only exit and reenter with the entirety of my account with risk measures.

[Strikersipk]

Can this make sense! No, not actually. Are you saying you use all of your equity as margin? If yes then your risk is suicide and you are only using a percentage then what is to prevent me doing the same? I am trading the long-term trend as well as the short word'fractals'. So in your case I am getting 600 pips plus the trades as you which is just another ~600 pips. In your example we using the exact same margin exactly the same transaction size. Who ends up with much more profit?

It is a small pointless hypothetical tho' and is straying off the first point somewhat.




I did not say that this is simpler. I don't look for the complete trend I look for fractals that are probable throughout the fashion. We are still in precisely the exact same trade I exit and reenter with the entirety of my account with risk measures. So what would you do if let's say you see a wonderful trend growing? You are not looking for it but there it is, jumping right out of this chart at you. Ignore it and carry on trading items of it? If yes, why?

[irok62011]

Pip mutt

90% of my transactions are fixed using a 1:1 RR. I do intervene before news reports and a technical reversals. I used to take less profit then risk.

I don't make 6000% annually never claimed to. I average 25 to 30 per cent a month and compound daily. I should have said the daily stats were based on the last three months of trading. When I began to stat as it is track. Last month I had a return. Puts against a few stocks at the start of may.

You insulted me just the same. Laughing I have shown is a insult.

So Far as the maximizing profits remark. I was insinuating that attempting to optimize profits can work against you. You manage your transactions so that is your wheel home. I should of left that one out.

Anyhow if you look at my history. I try to treat people with respect and do not run many disagreements which are not solved in a way that is fantastic. This has become the debate we've ever had.

So yeah will not be childish. You exchange by ear I systems commerce with minimal intervention. They are two different procedures of trading. So we are attempting to compare apples to oranges.

[Strikersipk]

I'm not stuck at an even RI simply initially egize about
an even R:R

90% of my transactions are mended with a 1:1 RR


Averaging.5 to 1 percent a day in the Currency Market market and a bit more then 1% per day in the stock market.

I average 25 to 30% a month and compound daily.


So we are trying to compare apples to oranges. Apples, oranges, fairy dust....

However you slice and dice it the bottom line is allowing profits to conduct makes more fiscal and more logical sense than cutting profits short.

This discussion is becoming somewhat disjointed, or maybe it's just you don't need to answer major questions?

[silvaydomingwz]

And yet another person might believe they made a smart move by remaining in the commerce and exploiting the market for what it offers, why cut profits (brief ) minus the market giving a valid reason?




So do I, and that is why I feel the collapse stats are so large, the vast majority believe that finding a tool to forecast direction accurately is essential to profitability.

I truly fail to see the worth of statistically analysing a systems historic performance when no 2 trades are ever the same. If someone needs those amounts as a crutch to... My response to that is becasue most traders use backtesting or background to give them confidence in their system because most sytems or approaches rely solely on chance....so in case you have backtested the system you know that it works a specific proportion of the time and you can also work on your own drawdowns, SL's and TP's etc to fine tune it. Please dont think I am being critical. . .in fact your article has me extremely curious as to what gives you the confidence to trade your method in case you havent backtested?? or tested it I ask becaseu I've tried this and failed badly....so the answer for me is backtesting and also for others also....so what is it you do to get that confiedence to enter a trade??

[irok62011]

Pip mutt

It's you that doesn't understand. On allowing winners ride winners ride winners ride, You're fixed. It is only wise to let winners ride. It is a no brainer to let winners ride and over again.

I will open a demo account with a lopsided R:R. I will risk 2% to gain 1 percent.

You open up one along with your let winners ride and lets see that returns more in 6 months.

Risk has to be the same per transaction. That's It. 2% risk per transaction good.

I can trade any R:R and have comparable results any way. You seem to have one ability. What was it. Oh yeah let winners ride.

This shall be entertaining for all the viewers of this never ending debate.

[silvaydomingwz]

okay, I just wanted to know it clearly. I don't think it would be strange that you make suggestions according to you, squandering potential, in other words; leaving pips on the dining table.

I will be the first to admit this could be a revelation for some folks. But would you agree with me to go after that possible that is extra, someone people could be forced with that do more harm than good and to step from their comfort zone?

It happened to me and that I can say that; it is not only where you want to go, but it is also... THe single largest mistake anyone could make here would be to take another persons information on how best to trade. NOt only are here just faceless people you know nothing about, but they have no clue as to your own trading personality and your own pain tolerance among many other factors....if you or anybody else for that thing uses a system or method which you're comfortable with and which makes your trading equally profitable and worry free....who cares if anybody else thinks you're limiting your possible....its entirely irrelevant....trading is all about finding a profitable procedure to match YOU....and YOU only. IF thats what you have found....sensational....work on refining your own method to increase profitability or anything....it sounds like to me you have done fairly well so far....keep it up. Its important to bear in mind that you're communiing by means of a forum full of anything from brand new traders, sheister salesmen, old hand succesful traders, to muppets who use them to stir up problem together with a multitude of other personalities....one thing you can rest assured that these forums shouldn't be used for....is accepting trading information directly from someone who you dont know. Fantastic luck to you.

[Strikersipk]

....so the response for me is backtesting and for others too....so what is it that you do to get that confiedence to enter a trade?? Backtesting....pretty meaningless in the scheme of things. Trades are unique, markets vary are identical.

What makes me the confidence? Focussing on'trading' rather than rely on backtest results and makes me money that is theoretical.

[blwstblw]

THe single biggest mistake anyone could make here is to take the following persons advice about the best way best to trade. NOt only are here just faceless people you know nothing about, but they have zero clue regarding your trading personality and your pain tolerance amongst many different variables....if you or anyone else for that thing utilizes a system or method that you are familiar with and which makes your trading both profitable and worry free....who cares whether anyone else thinks you are limiting your possible....its entirely irrelevant....trading is all about discovering...
LOL...I like this..Give advice and then move to say dont take my advice...

Just sayin. .

https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png

BTW my moneys on Mutts.

[oxrtinfisheroxn]

Backtesting....pretty meaningless in the scheme of things. Trades are unique, markets vary, no two pair of conditions are identical.

What gives me the confidence? Focussing on'trading' instead of rely for a few system, egy, or indior which forecasts management on effects and makes me cash.
Could you elaborate? It kinda sounds like you just jump in when you feel like it? Or price action?? Like Dean, I am curious.

[irok62011]

LOL...I like this..Give information and then proceed to say dont take my advice...

Just sayin. .

https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png

BTW my moneys on Mutts. I'm sure it is since you prefer to kiss so much ass! . Why not join the celebration!

My pitbull ass eats beagles for breakfast
that I
'll risk 3% to take 1% on you

[Strikersipk]

It's a no brainer to let winners ride. Apparently not if this thread is not anything to go by, but that is classic coming from somebody who advoes 1:1




I will open a demo account using a lopsided R:R. I'll risk 2% to profit 1 percent.

You open one up along with your permit winners ride and lets see that yields more in 6 weeks.

Risk has to be exactly the same per trade. That is It. 2 percent risk per trade.

I will exchange any R:R and have comparable results any way. You appear to have one skill. What was it. Oh yeah let winners ride.

This shall be fun for all the audiences of this never ending debate. Lol, trade demo for 6 weeks, are you serious?!?

I have a better idea, instead of throw out ridiculous challenges why don't you simply answer the questions which were asked? No, I did not think so, it is a lot easier to change focus and blow smoke trusting nobody will detect.

Ok how about this for an idea, you exchange demo for 6 weeks and assume that I take the other hand of your trades. Come back in 6 weeks and let's see where we're.

Yeah, right...

[Strikersipk]

LOL...I like this..Give information then proceed to say dont take my advice...

Just sayin. .

Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png
LOL, yeah didn't see that.... https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png




BTW my moneys on Mutts. Good call!



Oh well, there goes the neighbourhood! All we want now is Slim with his witty repartee.... https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png

[lorenaabad20]

LOL...I enjoy this..Give advice then proceed to say dont take my advice...

Just sayin. .

https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png

BTW my moneys on Mutts. I don't see the paradox.

[layunny]

THe single biggest mistake anyone can make here would be to take the following persons information about the best way best to trade. NOt only are most here only faceless people you know nothing about, but they have zero clue regarding your own trading personality and your pain tolerance among many other factors....if you or anybody else for that matter utilizes a method or system which you are comfortable with and which makes your trading both profitable and stress free....who cares if anybody else thinks you are restricting your possible....its completely irrelevant....trading is about discovering... https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png. . Zactly. . Markets open today. Time to switch off

My currencies on the simple fact that this thread will never reach an end. Because there is not one to reach. As with all threads. I only wanted to share my own ideas, not get involved in pissing conests and defending my right to have an opinion.

Both work... It will be dependent on the market conditions at the time about which wasy is best. But all traders are distinct and this is the most vital yet most ignored factor.

Trader:

Account dimensions
Expertise
Character
Trade Style
Goals

Strategy:

Edge
M.O

In case you can not earn a profit with almost any combination of r:r then your money management is NOT THE PROBLEM. Simply saying...

Good fortune trading this week.

[layunny]

Enter the trolls...

[silvaydomingwz]

LOL...I enjoy this..Give information then move to say dont take my advice...

Just sayin. .

https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png

BTW my moneys on Mutts. Yes you are right in a feeling, my point is.... Its harmful to take advice directly regarding trading from poeple you have no clue about and vice versa.

[lorenaabad20]

.... Ass eats beagles for breakfast Do not confuse them. They are mostly bitches in heat which require a little petting

[lorenaabad20]

Input the trolls....
There is one now!!

[silvaydomingwz]

https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png. . Zactly. . Markets open now. Time to switch off

My currencies on the fact that this thread won't ever reach an end. Since there is not one to achieve. As with all threads. I only wanted to share my own ideas, not get involved with pissing conests and defending my best.

Both ways work... It will be dependent on the market conditions at the time about which wasy is best. However, all traders are distinct and in these discussions this is the factor that is most vital yet ignored.

Trader:

Account dimensions
Experience
Character
Trade... IT seems to me you have a good grasp on your own personality and the trading method necessary to fit. Good luck to you. https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135862.png

[rayooxiden]

Risk how little or much. 1% keeps you in longer to bleed. Higher% risk are not any fun for many others. Keep putting them there where put your stops. https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135845.png

[irok62011]

[quote=;5745491]Evidently not if this thread is anything to go by, but that is classic coming from somebody who advoes 1:1




lol, commerce demo for 6 weeks, are you serious?!?

I've got a better idea, rather than throw out ridiculous challenges why don't you answer the questions which were asked? No, I did not think so, it's easier to change focus and blow smoke.

Okay how about this for an idea, you exchange demonstration for 6 weeks and assume I take the opposite side of your transactions. Come back in 6 weeks and let's see where we're.


Live afterward!

Only need to show you that other people are able to exchange another R:R and have similar outcomes. That is common sense and sensible and straight to the point.

The entire reason were here can somebody who transactions a 1:1 R:R receive exactly the same gains as somebody who deals 2:1 3:1. That's the question it's been loud and clear all I have done is yes a individual can. Considering that the skillset is precisely the same.

You've arrived here and naysayed that the thought that a individual with a 1:1 ratio will not perform as well as a person who enables there winners to ride.
Well I simply disagree I believe that when a individual enters the market he understands the rationale of the reason he enters and has assembled his take profits and prevent losses around his entry. He must understand what risk reward functions best for his or her entry. And no best risk reward is not always allow the winners ride. Plain and simple .

So I am not certain what your questions are I'm here to defend an open point of view which No 1 R:R matches for all.

I understand this because I have exchanged the range of risk rewards. The one thing which determines your risk reward is your entries. Your entries should be based around the risk your prepared to take not your profits. First find low risk entrances and mold that a take profit all around your risk.

All the stuff in between anything!

[layunny]

There's one currently!! Exit the troll then. https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png

[layunny]

Risk just how much or little. 1 percent keeps you longer to bleed. Higher% risk are not any fun for others. Keep placing them there where every' all put your stops. Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png most of us know you're an awesome orderflow stop searching guy EE but in terms of your money control what would you do ? Just curious.

Or are you just reminding us how a miniature Darkstars are rippin it https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png

[Strikersipk]

Live then! Go for it, same applies, assume I am carrying another side of your trades. 6 months then, see you back here!

The remainder of your article is merely regurgitating what has already been discussed.




So I am not certain what your questions are return and look....or don't. I doubt you'd have the ability to post a coherent response anyhow...

[irok62011]

Risk just how much or little. 1 percent keeps you longer to bleed. Greater% risk are no fun for many others. Where put your stops, keep putting them there. Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png I concur keep putting your ceases there. That's where traders put there limit orders. Ha Ha!

[rayooxiden]

We all know you are an wonderful orderflow stop hunting guy EE however in terms of your funds control what would you do personally? Just curious.

Or are you just reminding us how the mini Darkstars are rippin it https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png Yo Cindy! I like to have fun here. Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png Those guys tear up stuff.

Me personally. . I'm trying to put larger positions on more predictable trade results, and average in (w/ smaller positions) on moderate-looking trades. Some tops/bottoms have a spike immediately after to squeeze the front runners so a typical in tends to work. This is achieved on the 1min chart. Probably much different MM than the other thread participants.

Of course risk--0 is the goal after taking on a trade.

[lorenaabad20]

Exit the troll then. https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png Sorry to see you go.

[irok62011]

Proceed, same applies, assume I'm taking another side of your transactions. See you back here!

The rest of your post is just regurgitating what's already been discussed.

Authentic! As most of yours.




Go back and look....or do not. I doubt you'd be able to post a coherent response anyway.... I will pass on searching for your own questions! If you don't want to re post them.

Have a great one Floyd! . You can call me Pac Man!

When your prepared to put your money where your mouth is let me know! I'm always prepared.

[layunny]

Sorry to see you go. Hey Lean I will be the first to admit I am a small fk tard at times but in defining the significance of a forum one need not look farther than your articles.

You haven't anything to say on the ribbon topics... Only here to stir up sh*t and push people. . It's likely because you are a certain person in the actual world but suck at trading... We all start somewhere but there's no need to pollute the forum with your ineptness.

Merely saying...

[layunny]

Yo Cindy! I like to have fun here. Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png Those men tear up stuff.

Me . . I am trying to place larger positions on more predictable trade outcomes, and average in (w/ smaller positions) on moderate-looking trades. Some tops/bottoms possess afterwards to squeeze the front runners so an average in tends to get the job done. This is done on the 1min chart. Much various MM than the other thread participants.

Of course risk--0 is the target after choosing a trade. Fine. Ta

[lorenaabad20]

Recent discussion might indie that there is more than 1 way to exchange and do so profitably (imagine that).

And maybe others seem to have a difficulty understanding this basic idea.

It's only a thought you understand.

Now I am not trying to be a troll or something like that.

I only thought I would dare write a few words and see what occurred.

I am pretty scared about who may get up there over my article though.

[layunny]

Recent discussion might indie that there's more than one approach to exchange and do this profitably (imagine that).

And maybe others appear to have a problem understanding this basic thought.

It's only a thought you know.

Now I am not trying to be a troll or something like this.

I only thought I would dare write a few phrases and see exactly what happened.

I am pretty scared about who may get up there over my post however. Okay wtf... get a dictionary trigger this may hurt... not picking on you Lean but there's the new LOOSE. .

THEIR... Perhaps...

My Dander is down I have that off chest...

Trolly Out https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png

[lorenaabad20]

Ok wtf... get a dictionary trigger this may hurt... not picking on you Slim but THERE is the new LOOSE. . This DID hurt.

And were you aware that Pink is the new Black.

True.


https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png ?

[layunny]

? How about. .

What is your take on 1:1 r:r. Did we do that?

[lorenaabad20]

How about. .

What is your take on 1:1 Indicator:r. Can we do that? Yes we did


Recent discussion could pretend that there is more than one way to exchange and do so profitably (imagine that). Thank you.

[layunny]

Yes we did



Thanks you. Fantastic... I did read this. Why don't you just make your sig you will not ever be required to post. It might apply to all threads. All topics. All arguments.

I'm more curious about what you personally do. Do you trade? It is no offense if you don't.

[irok62011]

Recent conversation might pretend that there is more than one way to trade and do so profitably (imagine that).

And maybe others appear to have a difficulty understanding this simple thought.

It's only a thought you know.

Now I am not trying to be a troll or anything like that.

I only thought I would dare write a few phrases and see what happened.

I am pretty scared about who might get up there over my post however. I'm going to have to reply for pipmut. The only way to make a profit would be. LET YOUR WINNERS RIDE. Why not it's simple you just hold a bit longer and the trade magically moves in your favor.

Fuck it only hold it forever.


If you've got a 1:1 RR you are a entire fucktard and you have been ill informed by that dip shit Jimmy.

[layunny]

Why not make that your sig then you'll not ever have to post. It could apply to all threads. All subjects. All arguments. Taking my own information https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png. I'm glad we had this chat

[silvaydomingwz]

I have to say...I'm loving using that word f^%tard....it's a beauty!!! Cracks me up https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135846.png

[lorenaabad20]

Fantastic... I did read that. Why not make your sig you will never have to post. It might apply to all threads. All subjects. All arguments.

I'm more interested in what you do. Can you even trade? It's no crime if you don't. Ahh.... I thought something like that came. Hence the question mark following the peace emoticon that is little.

Anyhow, nice of you to ask. Now in time what I do not do or do is irrelevant. What exactly or jimmiejames79 does (atm) can be irrelevant.

What I believe is that JJ79 did a pretty damn good job of arguing his point until all the beagle boys began to pile in since did not know how else to respond.

That is what I think.

Do not like it? https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135828.png ?

[lorenaabad20]

Taking my own information https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135829.png. I am glad we had this chat actually

wow

[lorenaabad20]

I have to say...I am loving using the term f^%tard....it's a beauty!!! Up me https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135829.png you simply love riding each side of the fence'ay

[layunny]

Ahh.... I thought something like this came. The question mark following the peace emoticon that is little.

Anyway, nice of you to ask. At this point in time what I do or don't do is irrelevant. What exactly or jimmiejames79 does (atm) can be irrelevant.

What I believe is that JJ79 did a pretty damn good job of arguing his point before all the beagle boys began to pile in because did not know how else to reply.

That is what I think.

Do not like it? https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135829.png ? I am just wondering why you're here...

At the risks of stepping off subject. Something trolls are good at doing to interesting threads (me and you right now).

I am studying philosophy right now and to cut a loot of hippy BS... Basically you look at an action and to judge it's merit you excuse the person adn make that action universal... What would happen if EVERYONE di this action?

Well I am only saying Slim if everyone embraced your Philosophy with this forum from the articles you have made in this thread then I believe at midnight we'd all start turning to fk tards... (fk tard is your new Muppet).

So before you hit this dial with another useless comment see if for once you can stand not getting the last thing... I am guessing neigh into that.

[lorenaabad20]

So before you strike that dial with another useless comment see if for when you can stand not having the last word... I'm imagining neigh to that. Think about that for a moment.

[lorenaabad20]

I am just wondering why you are here...



I am studying philosophy in the minute

. And I believed you were a trader and I had been seeking your infinite wisdom.

[lorenaabad20]

on worldwide... What will happen if EVERYONE di this activity?

Well I'm just saying Slim if everyone adopted your Philosophy on this forum by the posts you have made in this thread then I believe at midnight we would all begin turning into fk tards... (fk tard is your new Muppet). Along with your brilliant contribution is....
Where

Well, you DID introduce this (fk tard is your new Muppet)

congrats

[irok62011]

Do not mistake them. They're mostly bitches in heat that need a small petting Ha Ha! I figured. Just like poodles all bark no bite!

[layunny]

And I believed you were a trader and I had been seeking your infinite wisdom. I'm whatever you create me Slimmy... That is what's so amusing.

[lorenaabad20]

I'm whatever you create me Slimmy... That's what's so funny. Exactly.
And what should that be.
CindyXXX is a dude. What are you.
Cindy is so proverbial as to call me Slimmy. Are you trying to place me down or coming back to me. I'm just wondering.

btw.... I take your new signature as an honor. Please don't change it.

[Strikersipk]

The only conceivable way to make a profit is. LET YOUR WINNERS RIDE. It's easy you just hold a little longer and the trade magically moves in your favor.

Fuck it only hold it forever.


When you have a 1:1 RR you are a total fucktard and you've been ill informed by this dip shit Jimmy. Truly, is that what you have known from our conversation?

Ok well that certainly goes some way to describing why you appear to be so confused....




I require a much reward to what I was willing to risk
I have back tested my egy and it is much more effective with a 1:1 R:R
Each egy I use in both the stock market and FX relies in an R:R.
90% of my transactions are mended using a 1:1 RR
I manage my transactions...I am not stuck at an R:R





I look for a 2000% return a year.
Averaging.5 to 1 percent a day in the FX market plus also a little more then 1% every day in the stock market.
I do not make 6000 percent per year
I average 25 to 30 per cent a month and compound daily.




When your willing to put your money where your mouth is let me know! I am always prepared. I have already accepted your absurd 6 month trading challenge, as I said all you have got to do is trade and assume I am taking the other hand of all your transactions and we'll meet back here in 6 weeks to determine where we are at. Simples! Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135829.png

Only allow me to know if you need it describing in words of one syllable....sheesh

[silvaydomingwz]

You just love riding each side of the fence'ay Its a huge fence....bottom line is that I like what Cindy has to say and her prognosis on trading...I trade...I'm here in order to find different folks insights into trading, not get caught up in bullshit or. She was and is simply giving her views on RR and the way she had to adapt her trading style to match the current market...I respect that....simple....the rest of the crap that gets thrown around in those forums has processed through my constructed in bullshit filter and this thread is making it work .

[lauravzquz]

Its a huge fence....bottom point is I like what Cindy has to say and her outlook on trading...I trade...I am here in order to get other folks insights into trading, not get caught up in bullshit or. She was and is simply giving her views on RR and the way she had to adapt her trading style to suit the current market...I respect that....simple....the rest of the crap that gets thrown around in these forums gets processed through my constructed in bullshit filter and this thread is making it work overtime. Cindy is a dude. I know, it is odd.

[joxrdomi]

As trading with a RR of 1 means much the reverse of everything in my trading egy something must be definitely missed by me. Maybe this is because I am a trend follower as opposed to range traders however I fail to see the advantage of restricting one's profit once you have detected a trend...

A RR of 1 is comparable to playing heads and tails, i.e. independent moves (or cries for that matter). Is that how some of you see trading?

[Strikersipk]

Its a huge fence....bottom point is I like what Cindy has to say and her outlook on trading...I trade...I am here to get other folks insights into trading, not get caught up in bullshit or. She was is giving her perspectives on RR and how she had to accommodate her trading style to match the current market...I admire that....simple....the remainder of the crap that gets thrown around in those forums has processed through my built in bullshit filter and this thread is making it work overtime. Only one minor detail,'she' is actually a'he'.... https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135829.png

[silvaydomingwz]

Cindy is a dude. I know, it is weird. That's weird!! . . .however woman or man stands. Gender is irrelevant.

[silvaydomingwz]

I have to clearly miss something because trading with a RR of 1 means pretty much the reverse of everything in my trading egy. Perhaps this is because I am a trend follower instead of range traders however I fail to see the advantage of limiting one's profit once you have discovered a trend...

A RR of 1 is similar to playing tails and heads, i.e. independent movements (or throws for that matter). Is that how some of you see trading? Vital part of this announcement is: everything in my trading egy
You havent missed a thing....your egy works for you and thats how it must be....if 1:1 functions for many others so make sure it....one is no better than another....trading is personal and needs to be adapted to your own character so nobody ought to be judged on the RR that they use or whatever else they utilize in order to establish profitibalilty and a level of comfort to exchange. Strategies, R;R, money mangement all mean nothing if you dont have any emotional control or discipline....its what's in between your ears that will fuck up you nearly all of the time....not the system, strategy or RR that you utilize.

[Strikersipk]

.. .one isn't any greater than the other....trading is personal and needs to be adapted for your own character so nobody ought to be judged on the RR that they use or anything else they utilize in order to set up profitibalilty and a degree of comfort to trade. Are you saying that anything goes so long as it makes money and is comfy to the trader?

[lauravzquz]

I have to clearly miss something as trading with a RR of 1 means pretty much the reverse of everything in my trading egy. Maybe this is because I am a trend follower instead of range traders but I fail to see the advantage of limiting one's profit as soon as you've discovered a tendency...

A RR of 1 is comparable to playing tails and heads, i.e. independent moves (or cries for that matter). Is that how some of you see trading? An R:R of 1:1 could be profitable if you know where and when to enter. Is it more profitable than a trend following/stacking technique? Maybe. It depends upon whether or not price trended or ranged mostly throughout the time period in question. There are no right answers to this questions, what's the ideal RR? Or Is a fixed RR better than not setting a fixed RR? The reason being nobody understands where price will go.

Here's another myth... an RR of less than 1:1 cannot be profitable. Math shows it could be. The rate of winning transactions would have to exponentially outnumber the loses as the RR'worsens', but there's not any golden rule which says it is not possible. It is probably not a fantastic idea to trade with an RR less than 1:1 because it places less room for error on entries (since you have to win more), but it could technically be done.

[joxrdomi]

Crucial portion of that statement is: what in my own trading egy
You havent missed a thing....your egy works for you and thats how it needs to be....if 1:1 works for many others so be it....one is no better than another....trading is personal and must be adapted to your own personality so nobody ought to be judged on the RR they utilize or anything else they utilize in order to establish profitibalilty and a level of comfort to trade. Strategies, R;R's, money mangement all mean nothing if you dont have any... Dean,

you're correct in the sense that anybody can get their own egy given it works for them. I was under the impression that threads such as this one were used to confront views in order to assist the community through individual experiences and, when necessary, disagree with egies.

I'm sure a pre-established RR egy of 1 can operate, I'm only pointing out that I don't feel that is the best utilization of one's time and money in a market which, even though it has its own chaotic moments, has a direction.

Therefore, just to clarify, I have no opinion on the merit of a RR of 1 scalping butif you're into trend following, a RR of 1 is obviously sub-optimal as markets generally have a direction and that supposing that an even probability of ups and downs is erroneous.

[Strikersipk]

An Rof 1:1 can be profitable Right, but when the market is offering a better reward then why can anybody purposely limit prospective and reduce profit short by targeting 1:1? It would not make sense....




Here is another myth... that an RR of less than 1:1 cannot be profitable. Math shows it can be. The rate of winning trades will have to exponentially reevaluate the loses as the RR'worsens', however there's not any golden rule which states it's not possible. It's probably not a good idea to trade with the RR less than 1:1 since it places less room for error on entries (since you have to win much more), but it can technically be achieved. That places the focus even more on predicting instead of trading.

[silvaydomingwz]

Are you really saying that anything goes as long as it makes money and is comfy to the trader? I am saying that it is futile trying to compare with 1 trader to another. . .whether it be a debate about RR or method or pairs or trading instances....whatever....none if it may possibly be argued because we are all vastly different with different trading personalities and fashion. So if you believe that your RR is better than a trader using 1:1 is moot....it works for you good. . .doesnt make it any better or worse than a method using 1:1. All of it depends on who is currently using it.

[lauravzquz]

Right, but if the market is offering a much better reward then why would anybody purposely limit their potential and cut profit short by only targeting 1:1? It wouldn't make sense.... I concur. Not saying either one is a fantastic idea or bad idea. Can 1:1 RR be profitable over a year to letting winners run? No one knows. Some years may have 1:1 RR more profitable if the trader played with the range properly. Other years might have seen a strong trend where a trader closed out their trades to get an overall average of.

The question becomes how many times will a trader let profits run only to discover that price retraces and closes out for a loss or breakeven? Just how many more times would the 1:1 RR guy hit take profit over prevent loss? Can it profit greater although more than the guy with lower percentage RR? These are all questions no one can answer without knowing what price will do.

[silvaydomingwz]

Dean,

You are right in the sense that anyone can have their very own egy provided it works for them. I was under the impression that threads like this one were used to confront perspectives in order to assist the community and disagree with egies.

I am sure a pre-established RR egy of 1 may operate, I am only pointing out that I do not believe this is the best use of someone's time and money in a market that, even if it has its hectic minutes, has a direction.

Thus, just to explain,... Please take it as criticism. AS per your article, you're investing in a trend egy and combined with that clearly goes a let it run attitude....and again. . .thats all trendy becaseu it works for you....but as you mention. . .others might be trading different elements of the market....ranging etc.. .and have just as much success with 1:1....you only cant make the decision that your method is more optimal than another....at the close of the day....what is the marker for achievement in all this....its that has made the most money.

[lauravzquz]

I agree. Not saying either one is bad idea or a fantastic idea. Can 1:1 RR be profitable over a year to letting winners? No one knows. Some years might have 1:1 RR more profitable if the trader played the range properly. Other years might have seen a strong trend where a trader closed their trades to get an overall average of.

The question becomes how many times will a trader let profits run just to find that price retraces and ends up for a reduction or breakeven? Just how many more times will the 1:1 RR man hit... The only thing we know for sure in order to generate profit is buy low and sell highquality. And all we can control is how much we're prepared to take as a reduction when proven incorrect. Combine those two and you will survive to earn a return.

[Strikersipk]

all of these are questions nobody can answer without even knowing what price will do. Right, in order traders we can simply respond to what price is performing and attempt to limit our risk and maximise our gain by taking complete advantage when chances presents themselves. That's not likely to happen when we insist on cutting edge profits brief no matter what the market is offering us.

[silvaydomingwz]

Right, but when the market is providing a much better reward then why would anyone purposely limit potential and cut profit short by only targeting 1:1? It wouldn't make sense....

There is ALWAYS a new trade....maybe that the 1:1 trader just has more of them....there are lots of possibilities and reasons as to why. . .again its possible that is not necessarily limiting. . .its just THEIR method of trading. . .and when its succesful to get THEM thats all that matters.


That places the focus more on calling instead of trading. Every transaction entered into has an element of prediction....regardless of your system whether it be using indiors or candles or whatever....once you decide to enter that transaction you are placing an element of prediction regarding the direction of price.

[Strikersipk]

.. .what is the mark for achievement at all this....its who has made the most cash. Maybe not at all, it's all about functionality, reunite for risk, that's the yardstick used in finance when analyzing any investment or speculation, not who made the most cash.




Every trade entered into has a part of forecast....regardless of your system whether it be using indiors or candles or anything....once you decide to enter that trade you are putting a part of prediction regarding the direction of price. Sure, however, the higher your win rate needs to be to compensate for poor risk:reward, the more times you want to be right along with the sharper your accuracy at forecasting needs to be.

I've put that quite awkwardly, I believe Soros's quote in my sig says it best....It's not whether you're right or wrong that's important, but how much money you make when you're right and how much you lose when you're mistaken.

Anyhow we're straying off the subject , why purposely limit yourself to 1:1 if the market offers more?

[oxrtinfisheroxn]

Right, in order traders we can simply respond to what price is doing and try to limit our risk and maximise our gain by taking full advantage when chances gifts themselves. That is not going to happen when we insist on cutting edge profits short regardless of what the market is supplying us. Perhaps you have heard of this quote, I got wealthy by selling too soon?
Be cautious, the market will kick your butt if your greedy.

[lauravzquz]

Right, so as traders we can simply respond to what price is performing and attempt to limit our risk and increase our gain by taking complete advantage when chances presents themselves. That is not going to happen if we insist on cutting profits brief regardless of what the market is offering us. Yes we restrict the risk (reduction ). That is not the topic. The topic in question is which method is more profitable? My logic tells me it can not be answered because we do not know how many times price will zig zag in a range or even . Assuming both approaches were profitable, logic also suggests that the trend trader that lets profits run will probably have a handful of winning trades using losses. Where the 1:1 RR trader will have more wins than losses with each profitable trade being less than the trend traders profitable trades.

With that said, I discover that I trade mostly with the long term trend unless I've a reason not too. And my entries and exits are where they make sense to me. I don't use a formula or RR. Nor do I shut all or allow it to run. Occasionally I allow part of it run, sometimes it all, occasionally none of it (shut all).

[joxrdomi]

I think the fault resides in the original post of this thread in which roofx has been quite generic. A RR of 1 works, so do additional RRs and, in some cases, a RR is not recommended.

Like every argument that has faulty assumptions and the answer to that is more determined by the man who answers as opposed to the question , I'll take my leave and wish you success for your own trades.

Best,
D

[silvaydomingwz]

Not at all, it is about performance, return for risk, that is the yardstick used in fund when analyzing any investment or speculation, not that made the most money.

Sure....and an investment which has performed well equates to more dividend income or much more worth in your inventory....forex it equates to more cash in your account. Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135806.png


Sure, but the greater your win rate should be to compensate for inferior risk:reward, the more times you want to be right along with the sharper your accuracy at forecasting should be.

We are straying off the topic... Yep I agree...I was simply saying that trading does really need an element of prediction.

[Karim6191]

He and sorry knows I don't like to say this however, the Mutt is proper.

Consider the amount of times the market transferred several times your TP.

Additionally look at how often you get nearly into the TP and it reverses heading all of the way back to your own SL.

Ask yourself if you take whomever given to you less or more than 1:1 will your account be much better off, odds are it'll be.

Much like the SL are you better off if you tightened then SL.

Of course you may have instances where you had of been better off, but general is what counts.

Ofcourse if you havent got the time to see the market afterward 1:1 is all you can likely do although I'd be on the lookout for setups with 2:1.

[Strikersipk]

Assuming both approaches were equally profitable, logic also implies that the trend trader that allows profits run will most likely have a handful of winning trades with a lot more losses. Where the 1:1 RR trader will have more wins than losses with each profitable trade being much less than the tendency traders profitable trades. So in a market that can be volatile and unpredictable one approach maximises profit when it gets direction directly and the other is dependent more on getting it right more frequently than wrong. I guess the question is are we from the trading business or the calling business?

[Oxrio]

A very reasonably presented point of view but you know I'm not likely to agree.... Https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135806.png

Is trading about being correct and winning a commerce or is it about earning as much cash as you can for the risks taken?

In a market where you don't have any control and that may be unpredictable and volatile you have to be right more times than you are wrong to make a profit. That puts more emphasis and reliance on your own abilities that are predictive and more significantly on the market agreeing with your view, and every new trade is new exposure to risk. Additionally, there are the problems... I have really been enjoying this thread, as it goes hand in hand with some research I have been doing.

I'm not going to argue either way (in the minute:-D) I'm only going to point out that one of the very prosperous day traders on wall street is famous for saying he is just happy hearing the money bell ring... He is happy going for singles...

Are you guys see Pitbull by Marty Schwartz.... Great book!

[Strikersipk]

I'm just going to point out that one of the very prosperous day traders on wall street was famous for saying he's just happy hearing the cash bell ring... He's happy going for singles... Wall St, different ball game completely from what I've read/heard/seen, but possibly some comparisons?




Have you guys read Pitbull by Marty Schwartz.... Great book! Nope however, it seems to get rave reviews! Fantastic book is it?




some study I have been performing And was it conclusive?

[Oxrio]

Hey Pipmutt,

Thank You for your reply. You might be right that it is a different bull match but for me it is always helpful to see unique traders mindsets.

It's among my top two favorite trading books! It will not provide you any system but lets you take a glimpse into the life of a trader, which for me is much more valuable. It is quite entertaining as well which is always a bonus.

How can you specify conclusive:--RRB- I've read other studies on the topic which all appear to come to the identical decision and mine was no different. A favorable RR leads to a more profitable return.

Nevertheless this for me is the key... how many traders really, are going to have the ability to remain consistent to a system which gives them a strike rate of lets say under 50%?

Regrettably the answer is a only a few. If they accept the trades when they put up following a draw down which is inevitable and can not remain consistent, then the system and hence the border are changing. If the system says take a setup and they don't then suddenly they have changed the advantage...

Where as I guess the majority of retail traders anyhow would decide on a worse risk reward but better strike rate. Since they could then remain consistent to the system they'd really end up better than heading for the home runs.

I'm not saying it's right and indeed it has been shown to lower the dollar return on paper, but if you take into account the trader then in actual fact a better strike rate might be more profitable in fact...

Not wanting to begin any conflict:--RRB- just offering up my thoughts.

[JuanGG22]

I am still learning but at the market, for me personally it's better to take what market gives so if it;s 1:4, 1:3, 1:7 or greater RR I will take it, by 1 I meant SL that is little or for me personally Risk.
So better in my opinion is our trend line, fractals and MA at one time to locate decent answer where leave SL and get out by price- manual or by market- SL https://www.cliqforex.com/attachments/1530135806.png.

[layunny]

Hey Pipmutt,

Thanks for your Answer. You may be right it is a different bull match but for me anyway it is helpful to see unique traders mindsets.

It's one of my top two favorite trading books! It will not provide you any platform but allows you to have a glimpse into the life span of a prosperous trader, which for me is more valuable. It is very entertaining as well which is a bonus.

How do you define conclusive:--RRB- I have read other research on the topic which all seem to come to the same decision and mine was no different. A more... You make several great points.

For me personally, trading as Pipmutt suggests which is to basically do exactly what I have preached a lot about on this forum and then trade the market allow it to determine when to depart... I did this for a long time but in the end the market wasn't picking anything. It was me. I was a very long time optional trader and lately attempted to mechanicalize (I know that's not a word) my own system. The departure was the toughest to systematize but I came to the conclusion of shooting for the large ones as well as taking smaller profits when I decided that was the right thing.

In the end it was very optional regardless of which way I did it. Setting collection R:R makes no sense because in shooting all those large Rtargets you come more victim into the market game which involves a lot of discretion I believe. The stop searches, shake outs, news, profit taking, market hours, session changeovers etc etc.. The start of moves that are massive are the most straightforward.

So in the end of my mechanization I have settled to increase my risk and take profits before these variables are more dominant on a move. This makes sense to me. For intra day trading that is.

Nothing has changed in my system or money management except earlier profit taking at greater risk per transaction.

I shall return to this thread and make sure you let you all know how it went for me. I'm a huge fan of pie. . Mmm

Secondly to all the above after taking a 1:1 there's not anything stopping me from jumping back into a movement if things look right. That is different to adding into a trade I'm currently when going for all those big ones in as I do anyway at various points.

Oh yeah it is true it is true. I'm a man... And a weirdo. Comes with the job.

[Kttera]

Suppose Fred buys 10, stop at 9 and goal in 11. Fred is convinced there is.

Okay. The price reaches 11. Well done Fred. What will he do today? This decision point is different to entering a trade that is second. Unless he's got a fantastic reason for believing there's a better than 50% chance that it will reach 12, he must take his profits in 11.

Basically, if Fred wouldn't start a new trade at 11, neither should he continue an old trade in 11. ie. You exit.

[irok62011]

Confused! I so do you and know exactly what this thread is about. You have spent hours naysaying that the idea of a 1:1 R:R. Now all of a sudden you have changed your tune. I've debated with people just like you. They reverse the argument As soon as they realize they might not be entirely correct. As if to say Oh that's exactly what you were stating

You state answer my questions. Your questions are obsolete to the ribbon.


You said in a nutshell that I am a idiot for advoing that a 1:1 RR. Well if a lot of us are idiots.

There have been many posters that have also identified your defect in believing. I am one of many posters that had questioned your statements about a 1:1 R:R. Matter of fact it is overwhelming how many people seem to agree that there is not anything wrong with 1:1 R:R. You seem to be busy responding to all the folks who disagree. You will be here forever!


Seems like you compromised with 2 2 = 4. He has said the exact same thing.

For your information 25% to 30% monthly compounded on your new balance is 1400 percent - 2400% per year. Do the mathematics. I claimed to look for 2000%.

The contest. Whatever! I only tried to highlight that I can trade a lopsided risk reward and achieve high profits. I might have been able to show that the R is immaterial if you won the contest.

You have several requotes of mine that say I use a 1:1 RR. That I do. Then you post a statement where I had said. I am not stuck at a 1:1. I am not stuck I really do intervene under certain conditions. I do not see why that would not mean I am not a 1:1 RR trader. I am but with state control. That qualifies me as a 1:1 Rtrader. If 90 percent of my transactions wind closed as a 1:1 Trader I believe qualifies.

[PablipkGG]

I see that the thread is beginning to warm up.

That I don't have any concerns either way, RR 1:1,more/less, money can of course be produced with 1:1.

I am however interested in whether individuals who choose to take profit at 1:1 are setting T/P and a S/L at MT4 or are taking profit/ closing the trade at S/L level.

My only concern with consistently shooting 1:1 is its just like a red rag to a bull to the more unscrupulous brokers out there, hence I change my R:R.

M.

[Strikersipk]

Confused! I so do you and understand exactly what this thread is about. You have spent hours naysaying that the idea of a 1:1 R:R. All of a sudden you've changed your song. When the conversation is about whether xyz can be profitable then of course, most egies can be profitable, it is all a matter of levels and measuring one's performance. Performance is not about pips or cash made, it's about risk required for the reward. For the majority of seasoned professional traders and investors 1:1 is unlikely to cut on it.

When the discussion is about purposely limiting profit no matter the market then it just doesn't make any financial or logical sense to decrease profits brief if the market is offering greater, and again the huge majority of seasoned professional traders could discount the idea as nonsense without another thought, hence the frequently heard maxim'let profits run'.

After running out of steam to encourage your weak argument you then began scraping the barrel and rambling on about compounding, I'm pretty certain that isn't the subject!




You stated in a nutshell That I'm an idiot for advoing a 1:1 RR. Well a lot of us are idiots. I don't recall ever calling you an idiot, it was in fact you who called yourself an'ill educated dip shit' and also the more you post the more I must wonder if you are right in itself evaluation! In the event the dunces cap matches....




There have been several posters which have identified your defect in thinking. I am one of several posters which had contested your statements about a 1:1 R:R. Matter of fact it is overwhelming how many people appear to agree there isn't anything wrong with 1:1 R:R. You appear to be busy replying to all the folks who disagree. You'll be here! Hey I'm perfectly comfortable being in the minority at a business where the majority always lose money! As for 1:1 if that's all the market is offering then nice, but that was not the problem was it.




To your data 25% to 30% monthly compounded in your new balance is 1400% - 2400 percent per year. Do the math. I claimed to search for 2000% What you actually said was I search for a 2000% return per year. Averaging.5 to 1 percent every day at the forex market plus a little more then 1 percent every day from the stock market, which equates to ~6,000 percent. You then changed your mind and I average 25 to 30 per cent a month and compound daily. Because you might or may not know, reunite means very little when it comes to performance so many educated individuals rarely spout about reunite in isolation, it is quite novice'ish to brag about unsubstantiated returns anyway (especially when the bragger keeps changing his mind about just how much he claims to make!) , though at least they have a modicum of entertainment value if nothing else, it is quite funny to read!




The competition. Whatever! Lol, you are the person who suggested it, not me! The moment I agreed you did a 180, also funny...

[Strikersipk]

However this for me is the primary... how many traders actually, will have the ability to stay consistent to a system that gives them a hit rate of lets say below 50%?

Regrettably the Solution is a only a few. Now we are getting to the crux of it, a egy to compensate for a persons shortcomings.

Isn't that just masking a issue instead of addressing and solving it?

[Oxrio]

Now we are getting to the crux of it, a egy to compensate for a persons shortcomings.

Isn't that simply masking a issue instead of addressing and solving it? No not at all... part of being a trader is understanding who you are as an individual. Whether you want it or not that's the situation.

You cannot change who you are as a person but can come across a trading approach that suits your personality...

surely it's possible to see that? Or is it truly 1 size must fit all?

[ffernandwzc]

No not at all... part of being a trader is understanding who you are as an individual. Whether you like it or not that is the case.

You cannot change who you are as a person but can come across a trading strategy that suits your personality...

certainly it's possible to see that? Or is it really one size must fit all? I think if you wanna be more profitable, you need to change to adapt to the market. The market will not change for you.

Clearly not one size fits all, but generally speaking, most individuals don't have the plogical installation required for being a success in the markets, hence THEY need to change.

[Oxrio]

I believe if you wanna be more profitable, you have to change to adapt to the market. The market won't change for you.

Obviously not 1 size fits all, but generally, most people don't have the plogical setup required for being a success at the markets, thus THEY should change. I can guarantee you that I'm profitable and I don't fad follow. I think that is more down to a first statement although I love that most people won't be successful. Not everyone can change... but not enough people realize there is more than 1 way to trade the markets.

Remember I did not say that a more favorable R/R is not more profitable in the long run... I simply said for a few people which may not match them. That doesn't mean that cannot be profitable.

I honestly believe the message you are putting across is incorrect. It leads new traders to feel that there is only 1 way. They need to look at themselves and find an edge if one exists, that they can utilize.

Sorry, just my view.

[Strikersipk]

No not at all... part of being a trader is knowing who you are as a person. Whether you want it or not that's the situation.

You cannot change who you are as a person but can find a trading approach that fits your character...

certainly you can see that? Or is it truly one size must fit all to you? Sure, I have always said that, egies are tailor made by the trader to match a whole host of an individuals criteria. However....

Trading demands an extremely particular minimum set of attributes, some which completely go against what we know, have learned, or are our fundamental all-natural instincts.

One instinct is that the need to be right. Another is the need. There are some rather significant hurdles to be overcome if people want to exchange consistently profitably and realise their true potential and exploit the capacity of this market. Attempting to avoid those hurdles by concocting a egy which attempts to compensate isn't a solution, it's merely masking the issue without solving or damaging it.

I guess it depends on what people want to attain in their lives. Is it rewarding enough, both financially and plogically, to be fair? We're forced to take our own limitations but that doesn't mean we must settle for under par, that is the manner.

Aspire to be the best, if a job is worth doing it's worth doing well....and other similar clichés!

[Oxrio]

Sure, I've always said that, egies are tailor made to match the trader. However....

Trading requires an extremely particular minimum set of qualities, some which completely go against everything we know, have learned, or are our basic all-natural instincts.

One instinct is the need to be correct. Another is the need to win. There are some rather important hurdles to be overcome if people want to exchange consistently profitably and realise their potential and exploit the potential of the market. Attempting to avoid those barriers by concocting... Fair enough...

But and only one but... ideally:--RRB-... A individual should not attempt and compensate to the point they can no longer make it operate.

I would not think about what I achieve to be mediocre. I have a home, 3 lovely children who go to schools, an wonderful wife and am in the processing of buying a plane.

We don't need for anything and signature wood not will. On creating an orphanage in a 3rd world nation one 17, I devote.

I enjoy my life and my loved ones. Certainly it is all about quality of life?

[22]

Need help and suggestion.

If I had $200 in my account to begin trading, how many% percentage that I need to use for open trading? 10% or 5% or 2.5% or 1.5% or 1% or 0.5% or 0.1% merely to keep and prevent early MC?

[Strikersipk]

A person should not try to compensate to the stage that they can no longer make it operate. They shouldn't try to compensate, period. Either accommodate and they know to trade or they find an alternative career.




I would not consider what I achieve to be mediocre. I have a home, 3 lovely children who go to schools, an wonderful wife and'm in the processing of buying a little plane.

We do not need for anything and touch wood not will. I devote to Charities and strategy on creating an orphanage.

I like my life and my loved ones. Certainly it is all about quality of life? ... OMG, I'm in the audience of a Miss USA contest, lol!

Yes it is completely about quality of life, and part of that quality is the satisfaction of knowing we met the challenge and did our very best. Trading is unquestionably a business and it requires extraordinary dediion and sacrifice during the initial learning 23, if we would like to make. Can we meet the challenge'money is made by me so that can do' attitude or do we catch the opportunity and give it our all. Personally there is only one option, and draw win, or lose I've got the pride of knowing that I did my very best.

I'm all out of (in)proper clichés...

[Strikersipk]

Want help Yes you're Doing.

Try reposting in the Rookie Discussion section for useful information.

Just reading your profile,....You have a fast mind and believe in the goodness of existence.... Yeah, trade forex for a while, that will soon change!

[PablipkGG]

Fair enough...

But and only one but... ideally:--RRB-... A individual shouldn't try and compensate to the point that they can no longer make it operate.

I would not think about what I reach be fair. I have a home, 3 lovely children who go to great schools, an amazing wife, two cars and am in the processing of buying a little plane.

We do not want for anything and signature wood never will. On building an orphanage in a 3rd world nation one 17, I devote to strategy and Charities.

I like my life and also my loved ones. It is all about quality of life? Lol,

if you would like to protect against an increase in your lot size, keep everything but ditch buying the plane, most really are a money pit...

[Strikersipk]

Lol,

if you'd like to protect against a rise in your lot size, keep everything but ditch buying the plane, most are a money pit... Nah, keep the plane, ditch the wife

Cancel that, I am forgetting alimony...

[PablipkGG]

Nah, keep the airplane, ditch the wife

Cancel that, I am forgetting alimony.... Yep, can diminish the lot size afterward.

[oxrzo]

Possessing a risk to reward system is bad in general, but having 1:2 rr is worst. What your risk should be is just like 5 or even 10% of your funding depending on how successful and how competitive trader you are without taking for any fixed profits... that doesnt mean however that if you are feeling you're in a loosing trede you shouldnt completing the deal before your risk threshold is struck.

Exactly what your risk is should be considered depending on your win percentage overall and ofc just how much pips you make on average on these winners. (u have to demo to get your risk straight - the higher your win% and higher your profits will be the larger your risk may be, but rly you shouldnt be hitting greater than 10% risk, or mby 15% if you're agressive or have extra high confidence in certain deal)
the concept of risk should be a safe mechanism if something unexpected happens when you're away from the commerce like some unexpected news, disaster or you get the market terribly wrong, not attempting to restrict your profits or over-extending them trigger your risk threshold. Market is a fluid flow that may float in two directions so or that change very quickly in a couple hours and the trend is changed for the following day. (this for moderate term traders, for longer terms ofc it cant take a couple of days or even more)

just how am I trading - I generally have 10% risk and dont take for any fixed profit - if I'm currently promoting and I believe the market will reverse I will just enter long regardles of my profits to date (or loses). The main point is that my risk is bigger than my benefit, however, the matter is that I wind up in bad transactions. I never rest in the market - if I'm not selling I'm buying. I'm a vsa trader btw.

Sry for the bad english.

[Oxrio]

Lol,

If you want to Stop an increase in your lot Dimensions, keep everything but ditch buying the plane, most are a money pit... But the plane is so pretty:-)

[Oxrio]

Nah, keep the plane, ditch the wife

Cancel that, I am forgetting alimony....
LMAO... that's quality! But She's pretty too:--RRB-

Did you enjoy the Miss USA competition:-)

[Oxrio]

They shouldn't attempt to compensate, period. Either they learn to trade and adapt or they find an alternative profession.




OMG, I am from the audience of a Miss USA contest, lol!

Yes it's completely about quality of life, and a part of that quality is the satisfaction of knowing we met the challenge and did our best. Trading is unquestionably a company and it demands forfeit and dediion during the first learning curve if we would like to make. Do we meet the challenge using a half-hearted half-baked'I earn money so that... That's absolutely a neutral comment. However, it doesn't mean that you aren't putting in your just because you aren't fashion following...

But each to their own and that I totally accept your view.

[silvaydomingwz]

I can guarantee you that I am profitable and I don't trend follow. I believe that is down to a statement although I love that individuals won't be successful. Not everyone can change... but not enough men and women realize there is more than 1 way to trade the markets.

Remember I did not say that a more positive R/R isn't more profitable in the future... I just mentioned for some people which might not match them. That doesn't mean that cannot be profitable.

I frankly believe the message you are putting across is incorrect. It contributes new traders... Nice arguments from both of you...I actually agree with you both...a succesful trader HAS to change his mindset, particularly about accepting the fact we're dealing in an instrument which we can neither control or predict, however we also need to accommodate a egy which suits our personality or I figure our tolerance for risk etc.. Its a mix of both. THats why its difficult for most to get past that first years of pain. THis is the stuff that is 10 times more critical to your success than systems and R;R....the plogical issues.

[silvaydomingwz]

Sure, I have always said that, egies are tailor made by the trader to match a whole slew of an individuals criteria. However....

Trading requires a very specific minimum set of qualities, a few which completely go against what we know, have learned, or are our basic natural instincts.

One instinct is the requirement to be right. Another is the requirement. There are a few rather important plogical hurdles to be overcome in case folks want to trade constantly profitably and realise their true potential and exploit the capacity of the market.... Yep I have to agree with you on this one....this game forces you to take a long hard look at yourself and more than likely do things you have never before considered emotionally...

[silvaydomingwz]

Fair enough...

But and only one but... hopefully:--RRB-... A person shouldn't try and compensate to the point they can no longer make it operate.

I would not consider what I reach be mediocre. I have a home, 3 beautiful kids who go to schools, an wonderful wife and'm in the processing of buying a plane.

We do not need for anything and touch wood never will. I give to plan and Charities on creating an orphanage.

I enjoy my life and also my family. Surely it is about quality of life? Can you please give us all the details of your system and directions on exactly how to use it
In all seriousness (is that a phrase??) Yep sure. . .its quality of life for me personally that identifies achievement.

[irok62011]

If the discussion is about if xyz can be profitable then of course, most egies can be profitable, it's all a matter of degrees and measuring one's functionality. Performance isn't about pips or cash it's about risk required for the reward achieved. For the vast majority of seasoned professional traders and investors 1:1 is unlikely to cut on it.

After running from steam to encourage your weak argument then you started scraping the barrel and rambling about compounding, I am pretty certain that isn't the subject!
A 1:1 Rcan be just as powerful as any Rgiven the proper circumstances. You're the one who is currently debating with this and this. They're are a lot of traders . A few of them know that there is no R : R and have submitted. So your wrong. You discuss logic. Well it's not plausible to be prejudice. Especially when it has to do with a R ratio.

You've ran out of steam thus the reason you keep wanting to discuss my profits rather than the thread.You nation I tried to divert the dialogue with compounding. Compounding and Rare comparative. If you were as smart as you think you're you'd understand this!



I do not recall ever calling you an idiot, it was in fact you who called an'ill educated dip shit' and the longer you post the more I have to wonder if you are correct in itself evaluation! If the dunces cap fits....

You insinuated I was the one advoing that a 1:1 Ras though it was a newcomer announcement. I can read between the lines thus the reason I called you out and you diminished! Floyd!


Hey I am perfectly comfortable being in the minority at a company where the majority consistently lose money! As for 1:1, well if that of the market is offering then fine, but that was not the problem was it.

Even traders who are novices possess the emotional capacity to understand there is no room for prejudice. Especially with an Rratio. It is not about what the market provides it's about everything you want from the market relative to your procedure. Additionally they're are lots of traders as I have mentioned that have submitted similar thoughts. So I guess were the majority. I hope you feel about yourself becoming all the minority an good.


eWhat you really said was I look for a 2000% return a year. Averaging.5 to 1 percent every day at the FX market and a little more then 1% every day in the stock market, which equates to ~6,000%. You changed your mind and I average 25 to 30 and compound daily. As you might or may not know, return alone means very little when it comes to performance so most educated people rarely spout about return in isolation, so it's quite novice'ish to brag about unsubstantiated returns anyway (particularly when the bragger keeps shifting...

Like I said what I look out for in the market is 2000 percent a year. I average.5% to 1% in the FX market and A little more then 1% in the stock market. So you worked out the max of these figures and pulled your calculator out. Which is not what I stated. Right know my stats are at the end of these figures since March when I started stat tracker up. So yeah I am on track for higher. You're correct! As far as risk yes I know more about risk you then. I do not try to exploit the future. Hogs get slaughtered! I was bragging. This is a match that is competitive. I have no issue with you telling me what your profits are. Matter? About me needing to be the trading billionaire you made a remark. Well yeah that is my goal! . I do not rule out possibilities. You have.


That is your way of attempting to escape the thread discussion. Nit picking on comments.


Quote:
lol, you are the person who suggested it, not me! The moment I agreed you did a 180, also funny....
[/quote]

No you did not except that the challenge that you pussed out! Show me where you accepted my challenge. You won't be able to perform this will ya! The challenge remains on. Floyd!

__________________

[lauravzquz]

Hey Pipmutt,

Thank You for your Answer. You may be right that it is not the same bull match but for me it is helpful to see unique traders mindsets.

It is one of my favorite two favorite trading books! It doesn't give you any platform but lets you have a glimpse into the life of a trader, which for me is more valuable. It is entertaining as well which is a bonus.

How do you define conclusive:--RRB- I have read other studies on the topic which all seem to come to the same conclusion and mine was no different. A more... This is a fantastic post.

1:2, 1:1, 2:1 are all the exact same in that they are relative and proportional to one another along with the market. Unfortunately for us, we do not know which one will be most successful in any particular year. That is arguing which is best is pointless, in my estimation. Not to say that it is pointless to talk. It does make for stimulation of the brain.

[Strikersipk]

A 1:1 Rcan be just as powerful as any Rgiven the proper conditions. Anything can be just as powerful as anything given the right conditions!



You have ran out of steam thus why you keep wanting to discuss my profits rather than the thread. You are the one who began talking about your profits, I was only pointing out the discrepancies.




You state I attempted to divert the conversation with compounding. Compounding and Rare relative. If you were half as smart as you think you are you would understand this! Your claim is that 1:1 can compound an account faster than a higher R:R. I was only pointing out that wasn't really true.




It is not about what the market provides it is about what you need in the market relative to your trading procedure. Vintage! Is that?




I hope you are feeling great about yourself being the minority whatsoever. I am perfectly comfortable where I am thanks, I will encourage my opinions with reason and logic. I being in the minority.




Like I said what I look for in the market is 2000% a year. I average.5% to 1% in the forex market and also a little more then 1% in the stock market. So you exercised the max of those figures and pulled out your calculator. No, the average of these numbers really.




As far as risk yes I know more about risk then you. I do not try to exploit the uncertain future. Hogs get slaughtered! I was bragging. This is a match that is competitive. Lol, congratulations, pretty much every aspect of this paragraph is nonsense!



I have no problem with you telling me exactly what your profits are. Issue? Which are you, my accountant? Are my yields going to help you become a profitable trader, and are they even relevant to this discussion? By the way you understand the bit about the insignificance of quoting return on it?




You made a remark also about me wanting to be the very first trading billionaire. Well yeah that's my goal! . I do not rule out chances. You have. Maybe I will find a flying pig now....




That is your way of trying to Escape the thread discussion. Nit picking on obsolete comments. So you are saying your comments are obsolete? I would call them ignorant but ok, I will go with obsolete if you prefer.




No you did not except the challenge that you pussed out! Show me where my challenge was accepted by you. You will not be able to do this will ya! In my conclusion the challenge is still on. Floyd! It is still on? Great! I take! Now like I've said before, twice, go and exchange for the 6 months on a live account that you proposed for this contest and suppose that I am taking the other hand of your transactions, then return in 6 months and we'll see where we're at. How's that enough for you?

[silvaydomingwz]

This was a great post.

1:2, 1:1, 2:1 are all the same in that they're relative and proportional to each other along with the market. For uswe do not know which one will be successful in any particular calendar year. That's the reason why arguing which is best is pointless. Not to say that it is pointless to discuss. It will make for stimulation of the brain. I agree entirely...R:R is for each trader to determine what suits his own trading character and the market conditions he considers himself to be trading in. Its foolish and naive (or both) to state one is far better than another.

[Strikersipk]

that's the reason why arguing that's greatest is moot, in my estimation. Not to say that it is pointless to discuss. It does make for stimulation of the brain. Less risk for more reward is obviously best, it just depends on what the market offers. I keep asking but nobody has replied, why would anyone cut profit short if it is being offered, what is the rationale behind that approach?

[lauravzquz]

Less risk for more reward is obviously best, it only depends on what the market provides. I keep asking but nobody has ever answered, why would anyone cut profit short if it's being offered? Pipmutt, that appears to be a logical thing to say. And it is. But what if a trader, say me or someone trading this way, doesn't ch a tendency that is good . Quite simply you didn't earn any profit. Meanwhile Mr. 1:1 has made 1000 transactions in that time with a 55% gain rate and 2% risk per transaction. Who did?

Now let me repeat, I'm not saying either one is better or worse. I'm just saying.

Another thing. That is kind of branching out of the current subject, but if you trade with all the mindset of letting profits run, when do you take the profit? I know exactly what I'd be on the lookout for. Just asking to receive your response and earn conversation.

[silvaydomingwz]

Less risk for more reward is obviously best, it only depends on what the market offers. I keep asking but nobody has ever replied, why would anyone cut profit short if it is being provided? As you have confessed, none of us understand how the market will proceed at any given second....so exactly what YOU think about the market is providing you in the time differs to how everybody sees it. So whilst you're seeing it as an oportunity to allow it to ride....the smaller RR men aren't....if which makes sense....its your personal outlook about what your chart is showing you in that time....we all see it differently. Otherwise we'd all transaction the exact same manner....or that there would be no one taking another side to your commerce.
I'm not arguing with you here., I concur with a lot of your posts...I will adjust my commerce to what I think that the current terms are in the time when my initial target is about to be hit, but I dont expect you to be making the exact same decision only becaseue I see it as more pips on the table....its individual and that then makes your query redundant.