thread: Trading without stop-losses

Sorry but I can not agree. It's actually likely you are much more proficient than I am (and I mean it), also because I do not think I'm proficient at all; still, I do not think it is a skill to possess 600 pips down, even when you are aiming for thousands up.

The concept is quite simple: I think you will all agree with me that market is not predictable. It's possible to follow the market, it is possible to try your best also to get an insight in reversal and to know where the strain is going, before the majority; I am sure you can be extremely proficient in that.

To mention that...

Because I have found one thing that is obviously true about Forex, Everything goes down will go up and what goes up will return. It's the sole truth about Forex I believe is correct. When I recover I dont want the yield of 600 pips just about 20-25% to BE that will be a given except under extreme conditions. I recover the remainder and take my losses one step at a time While I have conditions. When you counter trade the extremes or price exhaustion turn around is never far away. I'm a counter trader the begins when a run is almost or has been done. I know sometimes it requires a moment and on rare occasions a third although the retrace is coming, most of the time I get it together with the first trade party. When I get to a fourth the first one is closed and I have a loss. I typically do that 1-3 times a month, however by then I have made a lot more profit than the 1-3 losses I have obtained. Countertrading takes an entirely different mindset than trading. It can be grasped by some people, some cant but I have found it a lot easier to trade than trying to follow the trend.

Nanningbob,

I truly believe it is accurate; however I also feel the chance that I go bankrupted ahead of the reversal is not zero.

Trendchaser, thanks for the explanation; indeed I think it is not easy and counter-intuitive, but I am following what you're saying and I do agree on the most part; nonetheless training in progress for me (I want it will be profitable ).

Certainty isn't needed. If someone offered me 10:1 on a coinflip, I'd sure as hell risk 50% of my capital.

Are you sure? If I were the market, I would bet against you on these chances, because of your answer I infer (tell me if I am wrong) that you believe that you'd be profitable; therefore you will continue betting (right?) . That's at least what a trader does: he keeps on trading (I guess).

Having a 50% per move? No way you can handle it, even if on the other side there is a capital which is unbounded (if known to yours). No matter how wealthy you're. 50% is not acceptable in any situation, when you continue playing that game.

Do you think a string of 10 losses in a row could be'impossible' on a high number of sorting? Of course not: after that you'd remain with less than 1/1000 of 10 and your riches losses in a row is not the worst which may happen.

Anyhow with such a huge expected reward the fact is that will be from the game, likely, fulfilled, at a particular point if you're not extremely unlucky. This has premises which aren't true in the market, otherwise we would go together with the Kelly's standard?

The other more important thing is: this is betting. Nothing bad about that, but the real difference in gaming (to my understanding) is not the risk or other variables involved. I thought about that. You want straight and the triumph and then retire in the game. My interest for trading is regarding the fact that I like it. It does not mean when I get something from it, I'll be sorry , it means my horizon does not have a priori limits. I would go bankrupted likely with a 10:1 ratio, even if 50% is every moment.

The fact is it is highly possible I'll go bankrupted in any scenario, but since I don't have a border with a 10:1 ratio. Should I find a good advantage, I expect I'll try my best to not ruin it.

Happy trading to you.

It's funny how a bunch of new traders who are unprofitable are arguing with somebody who's profitable and has tens of thousands of trades and posts.

There's still lots to explore before you place the nail in the coffin.

Jest, I understand your reasoning. I couldn't open a position without a SL, but this is me. Still, even pushing it further, I'd set a catastrophic stop, just if (where catastrophic is still well before a margin call).

You dont understand, a margin call should not be a catastrophic event. .

Nubcake,

I totally respect others' view and I wish I could be a profitable trader myself; nevertheless, I think there is still space for my view.

If I do not agree with somebody or I believe that the risk involved is too large, regardless of what your operation might or might not be, I think I could express myself. To me risk implies you are placing your method at a bet.

What I do believe is that if you aren't a brilliant trader and learning (this illustrates my case): cash management, SL, and any trickery on Earth won't stop me to go bankrupt in the time required to learn will arrive after the end of the cash at stake.

That said, unless the contrary is proofed, I do believe that in the event you risk way too much, however great you are, there is a risk that you will go bankrupt and if your horizon is not limited then this chance is not so distant, indeed.

Still learning from you all, but this does not imply I am unable to have distinct opinions if something is not logically sound to me. Contemplating a loss does not make sense to me if you are very profitable in anticipation.

Also, this does not imply I would not do the same; probably with a lack of discipline I would wait much more than 600 pips, but I would refer to this as a mistake and'm still convinced of this, particularly -once more - if the system is very profitable in anticipation.

Jest, probably that is contingent on the broker. In my case, if I remember I get a call if I have a gt;50 percent loss. I would define it but I am sure it is dependent on the particular broker.

Just my humble two cents.

An individual will never go bankrupt if he never left his equity beneath the brokers maintenance.

,

I completely respect others' opinion and I wish I can be a profitable trader myself; nevertheless, I think there's still space for my own opinion.

If I don't agree with somebody or I believe that the risk involved is too large, no matter what your performance might or might not be, I think I can express myself. To me too much risk implies you are putting your method in a stake.

What I think is that if you aren't a fantastic trader and learning (this exemplifies my case): money management, SL, and also some other trickery on Earth won't stop me...

you create the premise that there's lots at risk with a massive drawdown. Not necessarily. If you gamble your entire margin on a management and you get a 600 pip drawdown then it's most likely that you were margin called someplace around -100 for example.... So for somebody a 600 pip drawdown suggests that the position isn't currently making much of a dent in almost any capacity.

Following is a mystery that you address. It's not hard and thus don't overthink it. What's the way to have your complete available margin in a position and have absolutely zero risk? Take a look at your charts and see how this would be accomplished by you. This is 1 individual's holy grail... there are several ways to skin a cat.

what's the safest way to have your complete available margin able and have absolutely zero risk?

Nubcake, I'm afraid I do not follow you.

Disregarding the margin section, the only real way I'm mindful of zero risk is if your position goes to zero (which can not because it is a discrete quantity and gt;1,000 base currency for the majority of the brokers). At least if we mean the exact same thing with'risk'. For me personally'risk' is the best potential reduction (to be corrected for potential slippage). I presume that a leverage gt;=1:1.

Looking forward to your insight.

Are you sure? If I were the market, I would bet against you on those opportunities, because of your answer I infer (tell me if I am wrong) you believe that you would be profitable; therefore you will keep on gambling (right?) . That is at least what a trader does: he keeps on trading (I suppose ).

I simplified. Just how much I had risk on coinflips would depend on what sort of capital I have, and how many are being provided. I would opt for 50% When I was provided one coinflip. I would be more conservative if it were until a side busts on offer.

Do you believe a string of 10 losses in a row would be'impossible' on a high number of sorting? Of course not: then you would remain with less than 1/1000 of your initial wealth and 10 losses in a row is not.

Of course 10 losses in a row is possible, but theoretically everyone can have a string of losses to go bust. 10 wins are equally likely, which would some thing along the lines of 10 million for each $1 of capital. In those 10 flips and 100k, we're as likely to become the wealthiest person in the world as to go bust.

We'll occasionally suffer a significant drawdown at first, but we'll also usually recover from it and never return.

Anyhow with such a huge anticipated reward the truth is that will be from the game, likely, satisfied, at a particular point if you aren't extremely unlucky.

Probably. Another component would wonder why bother, although part of me would love to exploit it. The bet can be provided for long because our bettor ends up with all of the cash available. Since this is the outcome if the bets were provided until one side busts, I wouldn't risk 50 as it would be a matter of time before arriving in precisely the same location.

If I find a fantastic advantage, I trust I'll try my best not to ruin it, with my own greed.

It's not a matter of greed, but driving home an benefit. Some will view risking 1% on a transaction while I might view it as a waste of a fantastic opportunity. Different amounts for various folks.

you make the assumption that there's lots at risk having a large drawdown....

Really I tried this type of trading once way back when I was a newcomer. I utilized 400:1 leverage and 500 dollars in my account. I could trade 9 lots. In the event the trade went I margined out @ 50 bucks. I made a killing if I was gone for by the trade. The problem was that I had been a poor trader at there. Wonder when I tried it today I could make it work. Hmmmmmmmm.... Perhaps we should begin a thread. 50 dollar losses versus 400 dollar profit on a 50 pips go.... Nice risk to reward ratio...